Maiden speech from Lord Moonie (Labour) in the House of Lords on Thursday, 14 July 2005. It occurred during Debate on Armed Forces: Chain of Command.
Armed Forces: Chain of Command
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, on succeeding in gaining a debate on this important subject. It is also a great pleasure to follow the noble and gallant Lords, Lord Boyce and Lord Guthrie, in speaking today in my maiden speech, as I worked with them for several years in the Ministry of Defence. Using the word ““maiden”” to describe an old political hack like me is perhaps stretching the point a bit, after the years I spent in another place. However, I should like to record my sincere gratitude to the staff of the House for the way in which they ease the passage of Members into it and the help that they give us. From my dim recollection of 18 years ago, it is quite different from the situation that applied then in the House of Commons. I am grateful for the welcome that I have received also from old friends, some of whom I have known for nearly 40 years. I look forward to spending time with them now in the House. I understand that a maiden speech should be short and non-controversial. I certainly do not mean to contravene such long practice. Should I stray beyond the bounds of accepted practice, I will be happy—I know it is not the done thing—to take interventions. I am blessed with a thick skin, as you can see, but, I regret to say, also with a fairly sharp tongue; so do it at your own risk. It is five and a half years since I first became a Minister in the Ministry of Defence, and almost my first duty was to take what is now the Armed Forces Discipline Act 2000 through its Committee stage in the Commons. I had long experience in opposition of taking Bills through, and as the Ministry of Defence is not noted for the number of Bills with which it has been landed in the course of its existence, other than the quinquennial review, they were glad to find someone who had more than a passing acquaintance with how Committees worked. The Act, of course, brought in a wide range of changes in the way in which members of the Armed Forces are disciplined, both in their unit and at court martial, consequential to the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into British law and to the results of one or two prior judgements from Europe that forced the changes on us. I fully supported the action that we took then, and I still do. Members of our Armed Forces enlist or are commissioned in the full knowledge that they may be called on to pay a very heavy price—sadly, sometimes, the ultimate price—for their service. Surely, they are therefore entitled to expect the same protection during legal process as any other British citizen, with the strong proviso—I agree with the previous speaker on this—that that should not be to the detriment of the operational effectiveness of their unit. That is the test that must be applied to the Act, now that we have seen it in operation for five years. At the time, Ministers including myself gave certain assurances to the effect that we would look closely at how the Act was operated. If the service chiefs and their predecessors feel that problems are arising as a result of the operation of the Act, it is high time that it was reviewed. Our Armed Forces, after all, are the best in the world, and we want them to remain so. That brings me to the second problem germane to the debate; namely, the perception that the setting up of the International Criminal Court and this Administration’s support for it represent an intolerable burden for our Armed Forces. The example of Private Williams has rightly been cited, with the difference of opinion that arose about how that tragic accident should be dealt with between the chain of command and the legal department. Clearly, the course of action in any individual’s case will vary depending on the danger of the situation and the rules of engagement in operation at the time. In particular, the taking of human life is something that requires a very full justification. One can argue for ever about whether the action taken in the case of Private Williams was correct or not. Perhaps I may put on record the fact that I was glad that the case did not proceed, although I regret the time that it took to come to that decision. In passing, I also think that it was unfortunate—I am no jurist—that the charge brought had to be murder. We have seen that before in situations involving soldiers who have discharged their weapons and killed someone, particularly in Northern Ireland. Surely, it would be preferable to have a greater range of options available, so that a charge could be brought and justice administered in a fashion appropriate to the offence that is said to have been committed. Having no option other than a charge of murder is a great failing in our legal system and one that should be remedied as soon as practicable. Nevertheless, in order for us to be sure that we comply with the law and avoid the chance of charges being brought in the ICC against British service men and women—I agree with the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, that it is a theoretical possibility, but only a theoretical possibility—we have to ensure in this country that our legal proceedings do not render us liable to the proceedings of the court. We supported the court coming in; we can hardly cavil at the fact that a case could be referred to it. That cannot be allowed to happen, and we must ensure that it is not allowed to happen by ensuring that our legal procedures are correct. If that is the case, we have nothing to fear. I do not think that it is something that any of us would wish. Sadly, in a case such as Williams, there will be some doubt—but in very few cases. The Ministry of Defence has said that of 70,000 service men and women who have served in Iraq, nine case have been brought under civil law to date. That is a very small number, but it is an indication that we look very carefully at the disciplinary procedures that apply and step in only when we feel that it is absolutely necessary to do so. It is right, after all, that our people should be able to operate in life-threatening situations without constantly looking over their shoulder for approval from somebody. They must be able to do that, but it is surely equally correct that wrongdoing is properly dealt with and that justice is not only done but seen to be done.
Secondary information
- Type
- Proceeding contribution
- Reference
- 673 c1237-8
- Session
- 2005-06
- Chamber / Committee
- House of Lords chamber
- Subjects
- Criminal investigation Armed forces European Convention on Human Rights Homicide Iraq International Criminal Court Prosecutions Peacekeeping operations Military law War crimes Rules of engagement Williams, Kevin
- Link
- View this Proceeding contribution on www.publications.parliament.uk
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