---

Identity Cards Bill

I am not going to give way until I have finished answering the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, because that is courteous to him. We do not wish to criminalise people, and we do not believe that that would be the purpose of doing this. The procedure that we have set out will enable us to deal with it as a civil matter in a way that makes sense. I shall give way in a moment, but I want to deal with the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, on the carriers’ case, and assure him that his understanding is not quite as he has said it. The procedures that we have included as regards civil penalties in this Bill take into account the Roth case and would therefore be fully compliant.