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Identity Cards Bill

It is a penalty. Both the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, know full well that in relation to setting a penalty or fee or—if this were to be a criminal offence—the maximum fine, the maximum fine is not necessarily the fine that will be imposed. You could have a fine of anything from a penny to £2,500, which is the maximum; all that setting the maximum does is to say that you cannot have a fine—or in this case a penalty—that exceeds that amount. That is the first point. Secondly—and I say this so that noble Lords absolutely understand it—the Government do not wish people to be criminalised. Most ordinary, decent people take a criminal conviction very seriously indeed. If you were to ask them whether they would be more content to have a criminal conviction or a civil penalty, I very much doubt that your Lordships would find many of them putting their hands up and wanting to be made criminals as a result of doing this. We need to take that very seriously indeed, because members of the public will take it very seriously.