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Government of Wales Bill

The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) said that the funding calculation was too important to be decided in the dying moments of the Report stage of this Bill. We agree, which is why we tabled the new clause. We are suggesting that the experts should say how we decide the formulation. We all agree that there are flaws in the system, and the Liberal Democrats feel that the flaws are so significant that we should change the formula. The hon. Lady also quoted the First Minister in defence of the existing formulation, but we have heard from the hon. Member for Carmarthen, East and Dinefwr (Adam Price) that the First Minister himself has criticised the formula on other occasions, when it suited him to do so. We cannot pretend that he has any consistent form on the issue. Ranting a series of numbers at the Opposition is not a sufficient defence of the existing formulation. This is not about specific figures, but about fairness and transparency. I must point out to the Minister that it is obvious that when we talk about the principle of fairness, that has to be seen in the context of the UK. When we talk about the principle of transparency, that has to be seen alongside the principle of collective decision making, not as some isolationist approach for Wales. And when we talk about the particular needs of Wales, of course we have to think about the needs of the rest of the UK as well. For those reasons, the Minister should recognise the strength of feeling that many of us have in favour of a change—and that is why I need to press the new clause to a vote. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:— The House divided: Ayes 44, Noes 281.