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BBC: Charter

My Lords, of course, the Government are bound to have an interest in the development of the trust, which is by far the most important dimension of the whole charter review. No government could abdicate their responsibility from that. What I am saying is that it will be carried out in fairness, under the Nolan principles. I hear what the noble Lord says about his service on Nolan and pay due regard to it, but he will also be aware of the fact that these processes were brought into being because a previous administration, of which he was not a negligible member, gave rise to very real anxieties about public appointments. Consequently, he should recognise the progress that has been made. The noble Lord, Lord Ryder, raised the question of the sovereignty of the trust and the anxieties that he had about the new arrangements that would obtain. The charter makes it clear that the sovereignty of the trust applies only within the scope of the functions given to the trust by the charter. I emphasise to the noble Lord, who put forward a most interesting argument, that it does not create scope for the trust to be an all-powerful dictator. I think that he used language almost as colourful as that. The charter requires the trust not to usurp the executive board’s own functions, defined by Article 9(3) of the charter. So I give him some assurances that boundaries are drawn in these terms and that the trust, which will be a very powerful body and will have the enormous strength of being ultimately responsible to the licence fee payers in a very obvious way, will work within rules and boundaries. My noble friend Lord Bragg raised a most important dimension of these issues and was supported by my noble friend Lord Lipsey, and other contributors to this debate—that the BBC is destined to be and has always been an enormous actor on the scene of public service broadcasting and its development is bound to have an impact on other public service broadcasters and their future. Of course we recognise the importance of the point that he makes. Ofcom has a responsibility for reviewing the state of public service broadcasting across the whole field, including independent television, at least every five years. My noble friend will know that that review took place two years ago. The next review is due in 2008-09, but there is nothing to stop Ofcom addressing itself to this issue if it is felt that the contours of the issues surrounding public service broadcasting are producing such a dimension of significance for other actors, including independent television, that it could address itself to the issues earlier. Given the anxiety that my noble friend Lord Bragg identified in his speech, and the reputation that he enjoys for his contribution to broadcasting and his role with regard to independent television, I have no doubt at all that this debate will continue apace. Certainly I assure him that the Government accept the premise behind the representation that he made—that one cannot see the development of the BBC in this rapidly changing age without taking into account the impact on other public service broadcasters. The noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, who I see has had to leave the debate, introduced the issue of the competition under which the BBC operates. The BBC is subject to general UK and European competition law and the new charter and agreement create new mechanisms to ensure that the BBC’s position within the wider marketplace is adequately and effectively defined. My noble friend Lady Gibson, in an interesting speech, asked specifically whether we intend to decriminalise television licence evasion. I am sorry to disappoint her but we have no intention of doing so. As she will know, a review of the matter was carried out by Lord Justice Auld in 2001 and it was his view that such action should not take place and would be detrimental to the wider society. However, my noble friend has raised the issue again and I have no doubt that she will take other opportunities to press the case. I understand the sentiments behind her concern for those who fail to make their licence payments. My noble friend Lord Young raised a number of questions on Radios 1 and 2 and local radio, which are a very important part of the BBC’s provision. As my noble friend Lord Gordon—who has also been obliged to leave us—testified, one of the BBC’s successes has been Radios 1 and 2 and that development of broadcasting. We want the BBC to carry on with such successes while also being mindful of the necessity of respecting properly the needs of other broadcasters. My noble friend Lord Dubs also broadened the debate by prompting us to consider the whole question of the BBC in the wider market. I emphasise again that all services that the BBC provides will be subject to a service licence. All service licences will be subject to public consultation and there will be vigorous debates about the development of the BBC in those terms. I am conscious that I have not done justice to the very wide range of contributions beyond those to which I have just referred. I think that most other noble Lords who contributed will recognise that this is a debate in which the Government stand fast on the main principles they intend to adopt on the charter. However, that does not mean that they have not been listening to the issues that have been raised, a number of which will require time for further definition. It is part of an ongoing debate. However, I think that we have derived from this debate a recognition that the BBC is one of the nation’s most successful institutions, that its success and independence are to be valued and cherished, and that although discussions on the licence fee will certainly lead to much sweat and tears before final decisions are taken, it should be recognised that the Government want to see both the independence and the future of the BBC safeguarded. On Question, Motion agreed to.