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Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

My Lords, I beg to move that this House do not insist on its Amendment No. 3 to which the Commons have disagreed for their reason 3A. The Commons have decided that the amendment agreed to by your Lordships on how we deal with Orders in Council is unnecessary in view of the Government's undertaking on parliamentary scrutiny of Orders in Council, to which your Lordships' amendment related. For the avoidance of doubt I take the opportunity once again to put that undertaking clearly on the record so there can be no ambiguity about it; that is, if we are unable to restore devolution on 24 November, we will quickly introduce measures to make direct rule more accountable, including provisions that will enable Orders in Council to be amended, in the light of views expressed by Members of both Houses of Parliament, in a way that reflects the spirit of the amendments passed in your Lordships’ House. I refer to the opportunity, agreed through the usual channels, for an amendability stage in parliamentary consideration of Northern Ireland Orders in Council. We will also ensure that we legislate for Northern Ireland by a Bill—primary legislation—wherever appropriate. We do that when we can now and we shall make sure that we highlight it in the future. I am involved with the marine Bill as a Defra Minister—indeed, when I was in Northern Ireland I discussed it with Defra Ministers—which deals with coastal areas. I told them that we wanted to include Northern Ireland in the Bill and that the preparations for that were going ahead. It is not on the horizon at present, but we shall take the opportunity to include Northern Ireland in that UK Bill. At other times we may need to legislate separately. Neither I nor my colleague David Hanson can go into detail about certain matters, but we have made that clear. Plan A concerns the Assembly. If the Northern Ireland members of the Assembly want to keep their jobs, keep representing their constituents, keep their salaries and keep their staff in work, the Assembly will go back. It is as simple as that. It is their choice, not ours. We can do so much to cajole them back, but we cannot force them. Nevertheless, the ingredients are being put in place. Commitments have been given. At some point people will have to decide whether being elected to office in Northern Ireland means anything, or does it mean just flying over here occasionally and dipping into Westminster? That is not governing Northern Ireland. Covering the detail here is second best. That is an excuse that elected Members of the other place will make in due course. They must be ready to be attacked for that if they want to take the soft option because they will not be able to go into the detail that they could in the Assembly, even if we have an amendability stage with regard to Orders in Council. However, it is much more satisfactory than what we have had for more than 30 years. But it is much better to have locally elected, locally accountable members. You are not locally accountable flying over to Westminster once or twice a week. Locally elected, locally accountable members of the Assembly are much better placed to deal with these issues in Northern Ireland and take charge of the ministries, as they have done in the past. That is plan A. We shall not spend the summer having discussions and working out the minutiae of the matter. We have given a commitment. I shall not be able to stand at this Dispatch Box as a Northern Ireland Minister, and neither will David Hanson in the other place, after 24 November, if the Assembly is not back—I believe that if it is not back on 24 November, it will not be back for the foreseeable future—while we promote other changes in Northern Ireland and push the reform programme forward, which involves changes to ministries because of the consequences of the review of public administration. I shall not be able to stand here and say, ““We still have to do Orders in Council because we do not have an agreement””. I will not be able to do that. The statement stated, in its first or second line, that we would quickly introduce measures to make direct rule more accountable. I cannot be more specific than that. I refer to Orders in Council rather than statutory instruments. We have to be clear what we are talking about here—we are talking about Orders in Council. Statutory instruments would be a much more difficult matter. With Orders in Council a whole Act of Parliament is done in an hour. Fifty or 60 pages are involved with no chance to amend them. Statutory instruments are slightly different. I ask leave of the House to mention a further matter before I sit down. I may have a chance to respond to what is said, but on the other hand that opportunity may not arise. This is an important week in the Northern Ireland Office because one of our key civil servants, who is in the officials’ box today, who has served in the Northern Ireland Office since the day it was set up in 1972, will retire on Friday. He served for nine years before that in the Home Office. He is the current Head of Legislation and the Parliamentary Unit, Jonathan Margetts. He is a really nice guy. He gives you good, firm and fair advice—such as, ““Minister, you can’t do that””. I pay tribute on behalf of myself, the noble Baroness, Lady Farrington, and other Ministers who have served with him. He has served under 15 Secretaries of State. That has to be pretty unique for a civil servant. Of course, the Northern Ireland Office is unique in many respects. People think that it runs Northern Ireland. It does not. I got there to find that there is a Northern Ireland government with their own civil servants and 11 ministries. That is somewhat different from the Northern Ireland Office. Jonathan has served there since the day it was set up in 1972, when Stormont was abandoned, put into cold storage and there have been 15 Secretaries of State since. I want to say thank you on behalf of the Government and this House. I wish him and his family well in a long and healthy retirement. Moved, That this House do not insist on its Amendment No. 3, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 3A.—(Lord Rooker.)