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NHS Redress Bill [HL]

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 8. I shall deal, first, with Commons Amendments Nos. 8 and 9. During debate in another place, the point was rightly made by representatives of the Benches opposite in relation to Clause 8(1)(a) that it is vital for a legal adviser to know to whom he is providing advice. It was suggested that clarification was required to make it clear whether the legal advice was to be provided to the person seeking redress or to the scheme. These amendments make it clear that legal advice without charge may be provided to individuals seeking redress under the scheme. I turn to Commons Amendment No. 10. Clause 8(1)(b) enables the redress scheme to provide for the services of medical experts. In the statement of policy, published in November 2005, we made it clear that, where evidence from an independent medical expert is necessary, the scheme authority will seek to ascertain the wishes of the patient to reach agreement on an acceptable person. The amendment makes it clear that, where the services of medical experts are provided under the scheme, the medical expert will be an agreed independent expert. The services of that expert will be provided without charge to the individual. Although the amendment makes specific reference to medical experts, "““instructed jointly by the scheme authority and the individual seeking redress under the scheme””," I reassure the House that we do not consider it reasonable to expect a lay person to instruct a medical expert on a complex issue. It is our firm intention that the individual seeking redress will have access to appropriate legal advice without charge to enable the individual to be fully informed and involved in the joint instruction of the expert. We have existing powers to enable that in Clause 8(1)(a). Amendments Nos. 8A, 8B and 9A would completely remove the power for the scheme to provide free legal advice to people using the scheme prior to an offer of redress having been made. By rigidly preventing free legal advice being provided to patients seeking redress under the scheme, the scheme will not give patients the assistance that they may require. The argument for these amendments, put forward in the other place, is that legal advice is not necessary during the fact-finding process. Investigation merely ascertains what happened. I do not agree. For example, there will be circumstances in which it will be appropriate for there to be instruction of medical experts to help to ascertain the facts of a case. As I have said, we do not consider it reasonable to expect lay persons always to instruct medical experts without legal advice. If the redress scheme is to be effective and to gain the confidence of patients, there needs to be appropriate support throughout the process. However, not only are patients to be prevented from having legal advice to assist with the instruction of medical experts, but Amendment No. 10A would remove the provision inserted in the other place that guaranteed that any medical expert would be jointly instructed. In Grand Committee, the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, seemed to suggest that, if patients as well as the NHS trust are to be able to start proceedings, which they are, they will need help to do so and to understand the proceedings. These amendments would prevent the scheme making provision, where appropriate, for the availability of legal support under the scheme to assist patients seeking redress. For those reasons, I strongly urge the noble Earl not to pursue Amendments Nos. 8A, 8B, 9A and 10A but to agree to Commons Amendments Nos. 8, 9and 10. Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 8.—(Lord Warner.)