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Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

The noble Lord, Lord James, has made a very interesting point. I am not sure whether we should be too complacent—perhaps complacent is not the word. We should recognise that many people will be responsible, although they have absolutely no commercial interest whatever, and certainly no financial interest, in what they are doing. I declare my interest, as I have done several times, as chairman of Stowe School. I am also a trustee, in some respects, of various trusts. Stowe School is a company limited by guarantee. Neither I nor any of the other governors receive any emoluments, and others in this Room and certainly in this House will be very similarly placed. Indeed, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, was a governor—I forget the exact term—of Eton at some time. He and I, as people with important responsibilities, were certainly taking on potential responsibilities towards the limited company or otherwise that organised the school. You do not get paid for it, but you do take responsibility. Yes, the corporation would be found guilty in a corporate manslaughter case, but you would feel very much involved and very ashamed if corporate manslaughter had occurred. Sometimes one may be a trustee and sometimes one may not. In some respects I was very comforted to hear the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, say that the trustee would not be responsible. But I should have thought that the trustee might well feel obliged to be careful to see that those who actually managed the operation in question did so in a thoroughly responsible way that did not give rise to corporate manslaughter. I do not want there to be any feeling that somehow because you are a trustee you do not have any responsibilities. As regards the exact legal position of the trustee as opposed to that of the director of the company limited by guarantee, I confess that even to a fairly experienced lawyer such as myself the distinctions seem more theoretical than practical. That is my understanding of the position. The Government are placing a great deal of responsibility on a great many people who obtain no financial remuneration whatever. I suspect that the provision will apply to trustees of charities which run commercial operations. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds charity runs the most enormous commercial operation. In so far as it runs that commercial operation, I believe that it could in theory be potentially liable under the Bill for the measure that we are discussing. I do not know whether the Minister can throw further light on the matter. My speech was not very illuminating but serves to say at least, ““Don’t think that you are not responsible just because you are not paid””.