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Government of Wales Act 2006 (Consequential Modifications and Transitional Provisions) Order 2007

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Lords, Lord Roberts of Conwy and Lord Livsey, and my noble friend Lord Rowlands for their positive contribution to this short debate. A number of detailed questions have been asked. I shall try to answer most of them. If I fail to do so, letters will be dispatched with the answers. First, the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy,had three specific points on which he required clarification. His first point was on the consultation procedure followed for the order and why it was felt that no public consultation was required—a point also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey. The order is entirely consistent with the policy already agreed under the Government of Wales Act 2006: that the legal separation of the Assembly as legislature and Assembly Government, including Welsh Ministers as Executive. As the noble Lord pointed out today, as a result of that separation, the roles of the Assembly and of the Welsh Ministers in future will be quite different. The Welsh Ministers will have executive powers in their own right and the Assembly will have new legislative powers and the role of scrutinising the actions of Ministers. The consequential modifications which comprise the bulk of the order in Schedule 1 contain no new policy. Their purpose and effect is to make references to the Assembly in existing legislation work to reflect the roles that the Assembly, the Welsh Ministers, the Counsel-General and the Assembly Commission will have. As there is no new policy to consider here, public consultation did not seem appropriate. However, where the modifications affect enactments that are the responsibility of Whitehall departments, those departments have been consulted. There has also been appropriate consultation within the departments of the Welsh Assembly, the Government and the Welsh parliamentary service—the latter on the basis that the staff of the parliamentary service will, in general, transfer to the employment of the Assembly Commission following separation. I hope that that explanation comforts the noble Lord, Lord Livsey. On the transitional provisions contained in Schedule 2, in the main, they provide for an Assembly legislative procedure to apply to subordinate legislation that may be made in future by Welsh Ministers under powers to make such legislation that already exist. Most existing functions of making subordinate legislation already have a legislative procedure ascribed to them under the provisions in paragraphs 33 to 35 of Schedule 11 to the Act. The order merely picks up those functions of making subordinate legislation not picked up in time to make it into Schedule 11 to the Act. The type of legislative procedure—affirmative or negative—has been allocated in accordance with the same principles that were applied to the functions contain in Schedule 11. Again, therefore, public consultation did not seem to be required. Secondly, the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, asked about the costs attached to the transitional provisions contained in the order. I can assure him that the order in itself will not incur any additional cost for the Assembly. As I have explained, the main effect of the order is to ensure that references to the Assembly in existing legislation are corrected to refer to the Welsh Ministers or Assembly Commission where that is appropriate, and that appropriate legislative procedures are prescribed for existing functions of making subordinate legislation. Although subordinate legislation procedure in future will be different, it is expected that there will be an increase in the cost of those procedures to the Assembly. The noble Lord’s final request was for an assurance that the order does not contain any hidden or obscure transfer of powers from Westminster to Cardiff. I can confirm absolutely that there is no such hidden or obscure transfer of powers. I am grateful for the positive reaction to the order. The noble Lord, Lord Livsey, asked who has decided which functions in the National Assembly for Wales (Diversion of Functions) Order 2007 should be reserved to the Assembly. It was the Secretary of State’s initial consideration, as advised by officials and legal advisers, but it was the Assembly that approved the order. The noble Lord also asked why this order is being laid so long after the Government of Wales Act received Royal Assent. As noble Lords will appreciate from the length of the order, a vast amount of painstaking work in identifying all the references to the current Assembly in legislationhas been required. It is vital that this order is comprehensive to ensure that the new devolution settlement in Wales is properly implemented, so it could not have been brought before the House any sooner. The noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, asked whether the framework powers will be subject to Assembly scrutiny and amendment. Yes, they have been converted into powers to pass Assembly measures. These will be subject to Assembly scrutiny and amendment before being passed by the Assembly. The noble Lord also asked what the level of scrutiny would be in the new Assembly subordinate legislation procedures, especially of powers to amend orders. The Assembly will not have the power to amend subordinate legislation. It will approve or annul, depending on which procedure applies. This principle is a fundamental part of the Government of Wales Act. The Assembly will consider measures, and it is not feasible for it also to amend subordinate legislation. As I said, if I fail to answer any question asked by noble Lords, I will write to them. In the mean time, I thank noble Lords for their positive contribution to the debate. On Question, Motion agreed to.