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Concessionary Bus Fares

Perhaps it would be helpful if I turn to Tyne and Wear. I was pleased recently to have the chance to go to Newcastle for continuing discussions with Nexus about its good work to develop bus services in the area. On Tyne and Wear, the Government accept that in such schemes there will be winners and losers. However, that is not specific to the issue of concessionary fares. Indeed, local authorities have long argued in favour of unhypothecated funding. The issue is not unique to concessionary fares. The Department for Communities and Local Government continues to talk to concerned local authorities, such as Tyne and Wear. It is in all our interests to ensure that local authorities are adequately funded to provide the statutory concession. Mention has been made of the Isles of Scilly, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for Tyne Bridge (Mr. Clelland). I have no brief to speak specifically for the Isles of Scilly, but their eligible residents will be entitled to the national concession on the mainland, so they will need to administer passes for their residents. On reimbursement and appeals, which a number of hon. Members have mentioned, we have acknowledged that there are some problems with the current arrangements for reimbursing operators, which are rather complex and open to too much interpretation. Appeals are time-consuming, costly and in no one’s best interests. We are working closely with operators and local authorities to put in place revised and rather more efficient arrangements for the new 2008 concession. We aim to issue new guidance on reimbursement in the autumn, and I hope that hon. Members will take an interest in them. On the general issue of appeals, it is right that bus operators should have a right to appeal. They should be reimbursed on a not-better-off, not-worse-off basis, and the Secretary of State has appointed an external, independent decision maker to determine appeals on his behalf. On the allegations of operators putting up fares, it is worth reminding hon. Members that ““Putting Passengers First? will give local authorities a role in the determination of maximum fares as and where appropriate. It is also worth reminding ourselves that the majority of bus passengers are not in receipt of concessionary fares. Bus operators must take account of the fact that putting up fares will be a deterrent to fare-paying passengers. Operators receive not the full fare charged, but an average fare, taking into account the whole range of tickets, including discounted tickets. My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe asked specifically whether local scheme additions will remain available. The answer is yes, absolutely, and the Bill makes that provision. On fraud prevention and the delivery of passes, smart cards contain a chip that can record data, which will be immensely helpful. They have many benefits, including the potential to reduce fraud, precise targeting of concessions, and allowing ease of travel, which is very much in line with our integrated approach and our encouragement to get people on to buses. We are actively exploring the possibility of the passes being smart cards. We propose that they should be used as smart cards in areas that have the necessary readers, but will be flashed up in areas where there are no readers. Again, in our discussions with bus operators and local authorities, the need to be pragmatic about what is possible by April 2008, with an eye to beyond, is paramount. The right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) mentioned the mutual recognition of concessionary passes throughout the UK, and that was raised with me when I had the pleasure of being the guest of my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew). I understand the point, but it is the nature of devolved Administrations to take devolved decisions. Concessionary travel on buses is indeed a devolved policy area, but I assure the right hon. Gentleman that the Bill contains the powers it does because we hope that in future—we have had initial discussions with the devolved Administrations—it will be possible to travel on eligible local bus services throughout the entire country. However, I want to make two points. First, it is our absolute priority to get a workable national concession in England in April 2008. That must be the No. 1 priority. Secondly, local authorities across borders can make their own arrangements, if they fund them. That option will always be available under the Bill. The hon. Member for Manchester, Withington called for a range of extensions to the Bill, but it extends geographical scope only. I shall give some figures, which the Liberal Democrats might want to consider their commitment to. If the scheme were extended statutorily to the under-18s, it would cost an extra £500 million a year, and if it were extended to community transport, it would cost an extra £25 million a year. Those are rough estimates, because the figures would be affected by take-up, and we do not know about the switch from other transport or the additional capacity required. I understand the point, but cost is clearly not the only concern—the Government have already made a substantial commitment of £1 billion a year—and we must consider fair and robust definitions for eligibility, demand, and whether community transport, which is largely a voluntary sector, would be able to cope without full and proper consideration, so I urge caution. The hon. Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond) extended his support to the legislation, for which I am grateful, but I am disappointed today, as on previous occasions, by the paucity of interest from his hon. Friends. His party has given no commitment to our sustained investment in transport. There have been references to quality contracts, and the proposals in ““Putting Passengers First? will make them a realistic option, while ensuring that the legitimate interests of operators are safeguarded. Quality contracts are about not only cutting social exclusion and reducing traffic congestion, but the radical rearrangement of bus services, and it is important to ensure that that benefits local people. The concessionary fares scheme is the right policy for this Government, and it is in all our interests to ensure that we get it right. I record my thanks to all those who continue to give us support, and I am pleased and proud to be involved with this important scheme.