---

Prisons: Population

My Lords, the change in the guidelines must be substantial to secure the release of so many extra prisoners. Can the noble and learned Lord say what the change in the guidelines actually is? Where will the 500 new places be built and what category will they be? Does he not recognise that successive Governments have been the equivalent of people in a boat, baling out faster and faster to keep the water level down, which continues to creep up? Surely, the answer is to stop the hole, as the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, said in a different metaphor—which means getting at offending before it starts. Is the noble and learned Lord comforted by the fact that his department now looks at reoffending and original offending? Please, will it go to schools to reach children before they are permanently excluded and obtain adult mentors for them? He will find that that affects the offending rate considerably.