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Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2003 (Commencement No. 2) Order 2007

My Lords, I thank the Minister again for his clarity and detail. He is absolutely right—it is all very important material to be debated, but, once again, we find ourselves in the Northern Ireland trap. I know that he agrees with me that this is a serious piece of legislation, it should be passed as a Bill, we should have plenty of time to debate it, turn it about, look around it, and so on. Once again, we are forced into a dinner-hour debate, we are running out of time and there is no real means by which we can debate this order. Having said that, I will not take up much more of your Lordships’ time. I want to be associated with the Minister’s tribute to the DPPs and those who have served on them. I have made that tribute before. They have done a great job. The DPPs, by and large, have worked very well and a large number of their members have had their lives at risk and been threatened but have stood it and stayed with it, so many thanks and congratulations to them. A lot of this order, despite what I have just said, was debated at some length when we were passing the 2003 Act, but I would like to ask the Minister one or two questions. The first is on custodial sentences—five years is not really debatable now. As for all the people let out by Mo Mowlam, that was a long time ago and the five years have long passed. But there is one group of people to consider. I understood that a life sentence is always a life sentence and that life sentences are not commuted and never discharged, even under the two Irish agreements—the St Andrews and the Belfast agreements. I would like the Minister to tell me that those who have been convicted of life sentences would not be eligible to serve on DPPs. Secondly, and on a different line, I am concerned to some extent about the subgroups in Belfast. We were going to have four districts in Belfast and four subgroups. I am slightly confused, because the latest I heard was that there were only going to be two districts in Belfast and I assume that they are only going to have two subgroups. I wonder whether, if we are only having two districts, two subgroups is the right number. Maybe we do not need any subgroups; maybe we should still have four subgroups, working to enlarge the districts. I would be interested to hear what the Minister has to say on that. I read a lot of the briefings on this order a week or so ago, and by and large we have no problem going along with it. We believe that policing is progressing. We are thankful for the way it is going. We keep our fingers crossed every day that nothing awful will happen. But the DPPs of all types—both political and independent—are a very valuable part of it and we support the order.