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BBC: Chairmanship (Communications Committee Report)

My Lords, one can use the concept of representation of interest on a different basis from a purely elected basis, although I recognise the purity of the elected basis in the broader issues of Government: that goes without saying. However, my noble friend and, I hope, the House will recognise that, in order to meet the democratic deficit, the trust is there to hold the executive board responsible to the wider public—the licence fee payer. Its role in those terms is illustrated by the example that I was about to give. The executive moved with some dispatch to deal with the broadcast that was the offensive with regard to Her Majesty the Queen, and apologised for it. The trust is looking at the guidelines that may need to be put in place to ensure that such a deleterious result does not occur again. It is the trust’s role to ensure that the executive is able to respond to the broad guidelines which it lays down. The trust is working hard in these areas. The trust has existed only for a matter of months. I accept the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, that this debate is concerned largely with the chairmanship of the BBC. However, he will recognise that it has ranged widely and that there has been condemnation of the structure which has existed only for a short period. It ought to be given time to bed down. So far it has a good record in responding to the crises that have arisen. Within that framework the Government are bound to differ with the committee, as they did through the whole debate on the charter—the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, played an important part in that regard through his chairmanship of the relevant committee—on the fundamental point of whether the democratic deficit can be solved through the adoption of a greater role for Parliament in relation to the BBC. The Government argue that that cannot be the solution because the public take the view that it is important that the BBC’s independence should be guaranteed through maintaining distance between it and Parliament. We had that debate when we discussed the charter and it underpins the debate about the chairmanship. The chairmanship of the trust is not quite the same as the chairmanship of other public bodies because other public bodies can be subject potentially to parliamentary vetting. If the chairman of the BBC Trust became subject to parliamentary vetting, the independence issue would be brought sharply to the public’s attention and the Government’s judgment is that the public would not support that position. What the public do support, and what the committee should recognise, is that the process by which the chairman is appointed should be fully in accord with the guidelines and requirements of the Commissioner for Public Appointments. She endorsed the way in which the process had been carried out. I believe that my noble friend Lord Maxton suggested that the process should be open. However, there is a problem with appointments that have to be open and subject to freedom of information requirements. It is not as if it is easy to fill some public positions. The House will recall—this occurred only the other day—an appointment in the nuclear industry which has had to be readvertised several weeks later at many times the original salary. Such a difficult post in the public service is not easy to fill. To make every aspect of applications for such a post as we are discussing open and, under the Freedom of Information Act, available for everybody to see in terms of who had applied, who had failed, what their qualifications were and perhaps even the judgments made on them, would be very deleterious for aspects of public appointments. It is not easy for us to suggest that these issues can be any more guaranteed than they are by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. I refer to her excellent record and that of her predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady Fritchie, who is now a distinguished Member of this House. This role ensures that the process meets the public test of probity for public appointments. I understand that members of the committee have a deep, abiding and significant commitment to the future of the BBC and a real appreciation of the role that it needs to fulfil. It should be recognised that, in their response, the Government have established consistency on the charter and on the debate on the charter. The public expect the BBC to have the necessary degree of independence from political institutions and from Parliament. Nevertheless, it must be answerable to the public. They way it did so under its old board and arrangements allowed, as was mentioned this evening, the happy advantage of the chairman and chief executive being able to stand side by side. But it was also the case that, in certain circumstances, the chairman and the chief executive stood side by side in somewhat indefensible circumstances. There is now a separation between the trust and the board of the BBC. The arrangements have admittedly worked for only a short period of time, but they have given a clear indication that it can address itself to the issues that arise. I regret that I did not pay due regard to the generosity of the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, in mentioning the contribution of the Arabic service and in saying with regard to the appointment that although he and the committee would have preferred a six-month cooling-off period, the BBC and the Government have settled for three months as there were legal difficulties with going as far as six months. The committee has made a proposal, and the BBC and the Government in their response have sought to move some way to meeting the committee's position. However, there is a quite significant difference between the Government's and the committee's positions. All contributions this evening have therefore indicated that the Government's response is not as acceptable to the committee as it might have been, and I fully understand that. The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, put me on the spot regarding these issues within 10 minutes of the debate being entered into. It ought to be recognised, however, that these issues have been argued about for a number of years now. The Government are clearly maintaining consistency in what they expect from the BBC and the BBC ought now to be given the chance to show how the new arrangements will work. There is nothing in the evidence of recent months which leads us to any other view than that the BBC will grow in strength from the arrangements that have been put in place or to lead us to think that we should express undue concern about the future of what we all agree is one of our most significant public institutions.