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Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

I will come back to the point that the noble Baroness just made, but let me first deal with the intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Winston. I take him back to our very first debate in your Lordships' House—I instigated it on a Motion in 1998, I think. The then Chief Rabbi, Lord Jakobovits, who was a member of your Lordships’ House, spoke strongly against the use of human embryos in cloning procedures. I will happily send a copy of his speech from that debate to the noble Lord, Lord Winston. I do not think that one can say that every rabbi or every bishop shares the same opinion, but I believe, turning to the point made by the noble Baroness, that to exclude people who may take a contrary view is wrong. I told your Lordships that I serve on a local ethics committee connected with my university, looking at the animal procedures that take place there. I am very struck by the fact that, on that committee, there is one member who is opposed to vivisection. That does not compromise the way in which he participates in our debates. I like to hear what he has to say about repetitive use and duplication of use of animals. I am not always convinced by his arguments, but I think that those arguments are worth hearing. They are certainly not arguments of bad faith. To exclude people entirely from such committees because a parliamentary vote went one way or the other seems to me entirely wrong. When we had the vote on human cloning in 2001, nearly a third of your Lordships voted against that proposition. The House was divided, but by a majority voted in favour of the 1990 legislation. A significant number of people have always been opposed to it. The precondition that my noble and right reverend friend Lord Harries put before the House that only someone with a passion should be appointed rather than someone who is neutral would mean that everybody who is appointed to the HFEA would be on the other side of the argument.