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Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses (Amendment) Regulations 2007

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. I thank the noble Lords on the Front Bench for their overall support for these amendments. I am sorry that they do not agree with us about Regulation 7. There is room for proper debate and disagreement about the right course to take over the problem that has been identified. I am tempted by the invitation of the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, to go down the highways and byways of agency policy. Apart from saying that the Government continue to support the underlying principles of the EU draft directive—we want a directive that offers appropriate protection to agency workers, without damaging economic flexibility or closing off a valued route into employment for many people—it would be better not to go down that particular path tonight. The noble Lord knows that we have the thrill and excitement of the Employment Bill coming to this House for Second Reading on 7 January. I suspect that he will find a number of opportunities to debate the very interesting subjects that he has referred to. I do not say that they are illegitimate subjects for tonight, but it is not practical to go down that particular path. As for Regulation 7 , I cannot do more than repeat what I said in opening, and what my honourable friend Mr McFadden said in debate with Mr Prisk last Monday when these matters were being discussed in another place. We thought carefully about what was the right thing to do but came to the view that the cooling-off period was the appropriate remedy. We did not want to jeopardise, as Mr McFadden said, legitimate publications, such as The Stage or Spotlight and others, which have been around for a long time and play a legitimate and valuable role in the industry. We want to tackle the hard-sell tactic of inviting people to attend a casting session, and trying to take money from them on the day, often on the promise of finding work or making bogus pledges to the effect that the young person has a great chance of success. We believe—and only time will tell—that the cooling-off period will have a significant impact by allowing people to think before taking a particular route. That is not to say that the payment of a fee for inclusion in a legitimate publication is always wrong. We accept that there may be a disagreement with our judgment on the matter, but that is how we came to our conclusions. All the representations that we received were considered, but in the matter of distinguishing between agencies and publications there was a question over whether this could be easily done in such a way as to prevent disreputable agencies producing publications of little value and abusing the distinction. We wanted to use the cooling-off period to give people time to think without putting in jeopardy—and this is really the nub of our argument—the legitimate promotion activity that is carried out by some very long-established publications. The Minister said that he was looking at one such publication, which has existed for 80 years and performs a legitimate role in the industry. We would not want to take action that goes too far. The noble Lord, Lord James, who has a particular interest in these matters, was good enough to let my department know what he intended to raise, and to talk to me today about these matters. As far as out-placement agencies are concerned, I repeat that the practice he described so well is already an offence, under the Employment Agencies Act 1973. We are also proposing measures in the Employment Bill, which will increase the penalties for this offence by making it eligible for trial in the Crown Court as well as a magistrates’ court. Where offences were tried in the upper court, there would be no limit to the fine that could be imposed. I invite the noble Lord, who obviously has great experience in this field, to report to the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate any agency he is aware of that is charging such fees. We would be most grateful. I am sure that will be in his mind anyway. As far as models are concerned, the noble Lord will know that the 2003 regulations contain a framework of minimum standards that clients—both workers, who in this case are models, and hirers—are entitled to expect. The regulations cover measures to protect workers, the contents of terms and conditions, and steps that agencies must take before supplying workers to a hirer. Additionally and importantly, the conduct regulations require the agency to take all reasonable practical steps for the protection of the worker. The noble Lord, Lord James, said that, for workers under the age of 18, agencies are required to obtain consent from a parent or guardian before supplying them for a position where they are required to live away from home. There may be some ignorance about that, but that parents or guardians of workers under that age are required to give that permission represents a significant control. Forcing people to give sexual favours against their will, or any assault—actual or aiding and abetting an assault—is a serious criminal offence and a matter for the police. That is true also of taking illegal drugs. While we do not for a moment contradict what the noble Lord said—it would be foolish to do so—we think that remedies already exist. The noble Lord mentioned a third area where he believes that more should be done. As far as that area, too, is concerned, if the wrongdoing involves forcing people to give sexual favours against their will, it is a matter for the criminal law and the police. Any cases of that which come to light should be dealt with harshly. I hope that I have dealt with the points that were made in this interesting debate. I am sorry that I do not have the support of the House for all the regulations; I must comfort myself with the thought that we have it for the majority of them. On Question, Motion agreed to.