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Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

My Lords, I follow the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, exactly on his last point. In Committee, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, asked whether it would have been a good idea still to have the procedure that would allow a case to go before a court for a judicial decision, rather than handing it over to the Human Tissue Authority. We discussed in Committee whether we could amend the Human Tissue Act. I took that issue to the Clerk of the Parliaments and specifically drew his attention to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, in Committee. The argument was that if it was directly related to the main purposes of our Bill, an amendment would be in order. Subsequent investigation suggested that it would not be sufficiently connected with the purpose of this Bill. Therefore, an amendment was not tabled to transfer the authority from the Human Tissue Authority to the judiciary. However, like the noble and right reverend Lord, I think that that would actually be the right answer. It was a great pity that the Human Tissue Act took that authority away from the court. There is a long and traditionally established pattern of children of people without the ability to consent being made wards of court. That is an admirable safeguard. It is a great pity that we cannot do that here. On the issues raised by my noble friend Lady O’Cathain, the Joint Committee looked at the issues carefully. We came to the conclusion, for the reasons stated in this debate, that the process of a child being tested to see whether there is a tissue match is now well established and should not now be outlawed. What I miss from the amendments—perhaps I should have taken more trouble over this—is that my noble friend on the Front Bench, Lord Howe, suggested that the test of what organs could be used in those circumstances should be confined to regenerative organs. I am not sure that we have that proposal before us in any form at the moment. That is an attractive suggestion. It is quite different from half a liver, a kidney, or something, but would apply to bone marrow and other regenerative tissue. That would have far fewer ethical difficulties than what is currently contemplated. I have some sympathy with those who say that the government amendment—simply saying that it does not apply to a whole organ; with great respect to the noble Lord, Lord Darzi—does not meet the case at all. Of course no one is going to take a whole lung, but you can take part of one. That is the point at which one would like to feel that there is a greater safeguard. If I may say so, this is unfinished business. I hope that, when the Minister replies, we may get an undertaking from the Government to continue to consider the issue and see whether the Bill has got it right. With great respect to my noble friend Lady O’Cathain, I would not go the whole way with her and ban the whole process. I would not agree with that at all. I entirely take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and agree with her, but I do not think that we have got it right yet. It may well be that this will have to be put right in another place. Some valuable points have been be made during the debate this evening.