---

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

My Lords, throughout the Bill’s passage we on this Front Bench have been mindful of the fact that scientists are finding themselves in an extremely difficult position. Throughout its passage, they have been subject to unfair and somewhat crude criticism, not least the criticism that they have not sufficiently explained to the rest of us what they do. The evidence in all the briefings we have received is that the scientific community, the medical research charities and so on have gone to great lengths to try to explain to the rest of us things that, by definition, we do not know. It is precisely because scientists need to continue to enjoy the confidence of the general public that we believe that the amendment is misguided. I strongly agree with my noble friend Lady Williams of Crosby that, in other walks of life, ignorance of the law is not a defence. I do not believe that a case has as yet been made suggesting that that should not apply here. I listened closely to the arguments of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, and I should like to ask him some questions. Can he say what is the likelihood of a researcher finding himself or herself in this position? Is it not the case that local ethics committees would be involved in licensing any research? Does that not therefore decrease the chances of a lone researcher committing the sort of offence outlined? Does he agree that if scientists at the cutting edge of knowledge are to continue to retain the general public’s confidence, only the highest standards will be permissible? Should we therefore not seek in any way to dilute the penalties they face? If they put themselves in a position where there is a lack of clarity, the potential for things to go wrong—badly wrong—is immense.