---

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

My Lords, I have been speaking succinctly, as I am sure the Chief Whip recognises, and I shall respond succinctly to the noble Baroness’s lengthy two-question exposé by saying that she might have fallen foul of putting words into my mouth. At no stage did I suggest that the result would be different; I have no idea whether it would have been, had a three-line Whip been applied or not. However, I know that I think it wrong for a three-line Whip to be applied on such matters of conscientious issue. It is not a satisfactory get-out to say that someone can go to the last Chief Whip—or the present, new and smiling Chief Whip—and say, ““Look, I am having conscientious trouble and prefer not to go though the Lobbies tonight””. What happened back in 1990 was much better; we did not have three-line Whips on such issues, as my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern pointed out. I conclude on this point, as I attempted to do a moment or two ago. The scientific community has nothing at all to fear from this, as it would benefit greatly from having outside advice made under a dispassionate and formidable chairman. The Government have nothing to fear, either.