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Children and Young Persons Bill [HL]

I support the principle that lies behind the amendment; but I am by no means certain about the 10 years. Picking up what the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, said, it crossed my mind when looking at the amendment that, although it is fairly clear that it would be premature to invite CAFCASS to take over the duties of the IRO, I believe that in due course it would be admirable for it if it is necessary to have a national service—but, clearly, not now. From my experience prior to CAFCASS, it seemed to be that around the country there were a considerable number of arrangements whereby social workers from one local authority acted as guardians for another. I just wonder whether this could be an intermediate step and whether local authorities could at least be nudged into finding IROs from another local authority. If they cannot do that, perhaps the Government might consider requiring local authorities to find guardians from outside their own local area, for all the reasons that have been given already. Two points have been made, but I make them again briefly. First, if you are paid by the same authority as the person whom you are challenging for incompetence, for negligence or for lack of sufficient care—whatever the reason may be—it is extraordinarily difficult to be a whistleblower if you propose to remain in that local authority for the rest of your working life with that particular person, who may be fairly senior and whom you really should blow the whistle on for the sake of the child. It is asking too much of human nature. Secondly, if this is not asking too much of human nature, there will be a perception among the public, and particularly among the families and friends of the child who is the victim, that because the IRO is in the same local authority, that IRO has not taken enough trouble, even if they have. There are the two things at issue: whistleblowing, which is difficult; and perception. For this Government, transparency and perception are very important, so it is quite surprising that they seem happy to allow a reviewing officer to be independent. Just think of the word; how can you be genuinely independent of your own local authority? That is very difficult indeed. Why could not everyone look to see whether they can find an IRO from the adjoining local authority, or even from further away? That would overcome the problem without the need for the amendment, or a simplified amendment, and would not put the burden on to CAFCASS unless or until it was appropriate for CAFCASS to take it.