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Children and Young Persons Bill [HL]

I was going to exonerate the noble Lord, Lord Judd. We had a good supper downstairs during which we continued the Committee stage of this Bill. However, I am not sure that I will do so now, following his remarks on my suitability to sit on these Benches. He is quite wrong about that; I am very much a Conservative. But he is absolutely right about the credibility of the process of independent reviewing officers. I am most grateful to the Minister, as always, for his thorough explanation, and to all noble Lords who have spoken. He said that IROs should not have any interest in cases they are reviewing. However, they will have a vested interest in the local authority if they are employed by it, and we cannot get away from that. The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, was right to ask how they could be a true critical friend if they were not independent of the local authority. As the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, said, it may be asking too much of human nature, but I liked her idea of nudging local authorities into swapping IROs. I am pleased that the Minister has recognised there is further to go and that he will look at strengthening the statutory guidance on IROs. When he does, it will be important to make clear to IROs and local authorities that credibility is very important and that decisions should be seen to be independent. In Committee I mentioned that I was deputy chairman of a teaching hospital in the north-west and sat on a complaints panel. However thoroughly we reviewed complaints and despite the fact that I think that we came up with the right answers, the people who had made the complaints far too often simply did not believe us because we were part of the organisation about which they had a concern. So credibility and transparency is very important. As the Minister has said that he feels that the Government are moving in the right direction, and Clause 12 is always a backstop, for now I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendment No. 21 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.] Clause 11, as amended, agreed to. Clause 12 [Power to make further provision concerning independent reviewing officers]: