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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

rose to move Motion C1, as an amendment to Motion C, at end insert ““but do propose Amendments Nos. 86B and 86C to Commons Amendment No. 86A. The noble Lord said: My Lords, as the noble Baroness has indicated, there are two issues involved in Motion C. The first one concerns the class of case in which unqualified employees of the CPS can engage in magistrates’ courts proceedings, and the second concerns the legal framework within which they operate when they are litigating in magistrates’ courts. On the first issue, our view has consistently been that it would be inappropriate for what, in the jargon, are termed DCWs to be engaged in contested cases in magistrates’ courts which are capable of terminating in sentences of imprisonment. We wanted that guarantee to be on the face of the Bill so that, if there was any subsequent change, it could be effected only by primary legislation. As the noble and learned Baroness has again informed your Lordships today, the Government felt that our position was too inflexible. The second issue was what legal disciplinary framework should be appropriate for DCWs. In that regard, we are satisfied with the solution that the Government are proposing today. I entirely understand the difficulties that the CPS would have in producing a cadre of DCWs who would immediately be capable of falling within the framework of the existing Legal Services Act. The noble and learned Baroness is proposing that there should be a delay of three years before the appropriate framework is put into effect, and May 2011 is the suggested date. For our part, we are content with that. Our understanding is that any DCW appearing in a magistrates’ court will, by then, be fully subject to the approved regulator stipulated by the Legal Services Act, just as any other legally qualified person would be when operating either in the context of giving legal advice or appearing in court. The single issue between us is whether the limitation on engaging only in non-imprisonable offences should be on the face of the Bill, or whether it should be dealt with by a more flexible procedure in the shape of an affirmative order. The noble and learned Baroness has helped us—and, I trust, your Lordships’ House—by giving an undertaking that the affirmative order would be presented to your Lordships’ House only once the framework of the Legal Services Act, as it would apply to the DCWs from May 2011, was fully in place. That undertaking lifts the majority of our concerns about the dangers implied in non-qualified individuals appearing. I cast no aspersions whatever on the individuals concerned, but the Government were extremely tough in the course of the passage of the Legal Services Act 2007. At the outset of the deliberations on this Bill, we were somewhat astonished to find that DCWs were not to be subject to it. I therefore hope that the noble and learned Baroness understands where the Official Opposition, and indeed the Liberal Democrats, have been coming from in the course of the Committee and Report proceedings. Nevertheless, the noble and learned Baroness has given a clear and unequivocal statement today that no affirmative order will be brought before your Lordships’ House until this category of DCWs is fully subject to the provisions of the Legal Services Act 2007. In those circumstances, I am content to accept that statement rather than pursuing my Motion—which, nevertheless, at this stage I beg to move. Moved, as an amendment to Motion C, at end insert ““but do propose Amendments Nos. 86B and 86C to Commons Amendment No. 86A””.—(Lord Kingsland.)