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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, having listened with great interest to the noble Lord, Lord Lester, I do not think we can distinguish as clearly as he has sought to do between that which is religious and that which is not. We are talking about homophobia, which I, like, I assume, everyone in this House, abhor, but there are religious groups, not only Christians, not only bishops, but many Jews and Muslims, which share strong views that they gain from the Bible, the Old Testament in particular, or the Koran. Those people are potentially at risk. It is very unlikely that they are at risk of prosecution, but in the speech that the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, made today and on a previous occasion, he set out that his area of concern is the people who say what is understood incorrectly to be within this proposed clause. It is those people who will potentially be intimidated; they will certainly be bothered and may go through an extremely unfortunate experience before calmer heads point out that under the new clause, as under older clauses, they have not committed any offence. It is those people whom the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, has spoken about who, despite everybody’s objection to homophobia, none the less need some help. I do not believe that guidance, even better guidance than is provided at the moment—the case of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester is a pretty good indication that the police guidance cannot be much good—will do what is needed to look after people who genuinely have ideas that are unacceptable to many of us, but who hold them for strong religious views from various religions. That is why this amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, is not, as the other place said, unnecessary.