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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, I have spoken a number of times on the terms of this amendment. I shall make one comment on the Minister’s reference to the ““alleged”” evidence of heavy-handed police. There is no allegation about the couple in Fleetwood. It was a fact that these two lovely old people, who described themselves as Christian pensioners, suffered 80 minutes of interrogation by two six-foot policemen. That was not an allegation, it is a fact, because within 12 months—only 12 months—they got the apology that they deserved. They had committed no crime. There was no reason for what went on. But someone did not understand. That is my worry about guidelines. If we mean that we are to maintain the principle of free speech, we should make sure that it is in this Bill and not leave it to the interpretation of guidelines, which would become another lawyers’ paradise. I say that with great respect to the noble and learned Lords in this House. I cannot speak as a lawyer, but I get very concerned when I hear all these angels on top of a pin being counted. The right of free speech is at stake here. My mind goes back to the years I have spent in my party. I have sat here thinking about what we would be doing in the Hampstead Labour Party if a Conservative Government was publicly denying a clause allowing free speech. Every constituency in the country that I have had any experience with would come to the same conclusion. If we believe in free speech, we do not need guidelines, we need to write it in—as has been said about other Acts of Parliament. I said that I would be brief. I have said that this is not necessary and that it is over-provided for. I support the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, in his desire to pass a necessary amendment and I shall follow him and others through the Lobbies to support this amendment, even if we are here until tomorrow morning.