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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I am not going to give way at this stage of the debate, my Lords; the noble Lord, Lord Alli, has had his say. If we are to give way at this stage, the debate will never end. I am answering the noble Lord’s point. My amendment could not be more moderate in words, because it is different from that which was moved initially. It was deliberately changed to meet every objection made in Committee. Now it contains no reference whatever to homophobia; it contains no reference at all which anybody could say is aimed at gays. It states that for discussion of sexual practices, whether homosexual or heterosexual, there should be the same protection. The noble Lord, Lord Alli, asked what mischief the amendment would avoid. There is a very simple answer to that: it would avoid the inferring of intent from mere words, in the way that the police inferred that the bishop’s words were threatening, abusive and insulting. That was something to infer, was it not? We must make absolutely sure that the police and prosecution authorities do not in future infer intent, threats, abuse and insults from mere words, but have to look at the context and the way in which they are spoken. That is plain common sense. And then there was all the business referred to, quite inaccurately, by the Minister in his closing words. The CPS did not change its advice in any meaningful fashion. I have read its new advice, which contains the same glaring error as was contained in the original advice; namely, a completely false definition of homophobia which cannot be found in a single dictionary that I have consulted. It is not true that no cases have occurred since the new advice was issued. One of the worst occurred after the new advice was issued and concerned the questioning for more than an hour of a street preacher. He was taken into a police van and was apparently questioned for more than an hour for preaching religion before being eventually released. As my noble friend Lady Knight said, it is no consolation to tell people after the event, ““Of course the police behaved really rather stupidly and reacted too quickly to a complaint, and of course you’d never have been convicted if you’d eventually been put before a jury””. That is really not the point. I do not want to go on any longer, save to pay tribute to all those who have taken part in this debate and raised some interesting points. The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Finsbury, referred quite rightly to the appalling crimes which from time to time have been committed against gays. I repeat what I said at Second Reading and in Committee: a specific offence of inciting the commission of an offence, particularly violence, is on the statute book. To talk about the violence done to gays in the context of this amendment is to diminish the importance of that violence, because it can be dealt with by a very much more serious offence; namely, incitement to the commission of an offence of violence under the 2006 Act. I thank all who have taken part in this debate. We really must press this amendment and see that free speech in this country is safeguarded. On Question, Whether the said Motion (No. J1) shall be agreed to? Their Lordships divided: Contents, 178; Not-Contents, 164.