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Listing Buildings

I agree entirely. I cannot find the words in my notes, but at present one cannot have regard to the fact that there are a number of old fire stations, and that preserving and listing a few would be sufficient for ensuring that future generations could enjoy our current structures. My hon. Friend talked about the way in which common sense appears to go out of the window in the listing system, and he gave the example of two buildings in his constituency. I have had to deal with watchtowers in a number of constituencies across England in the past few months. I wonder whether, when derelict buildings become heritage assets, there is a point at which we perhaps take the wrong view. Let me help with a few facts. There are 2,000 applications every year to list, and 30,000 applications each year for listed building consent. There are only 100 cases a year in which alterations to listed buildings are agreed and buildings are demolished. The system is very slow. English Heritage tries to make a decision within six months, but the process can take longer. As all hon. Members have said, seeking listed building consent is also extremely slow—but there are reasons for the delay. The planning guidance states:"““once lost, listed buildings cannot be replaced; and they can be robbed of their special interest as surely by unsuitable alteration as by outright demolition.””" I hope that the new system will speed up consideration. We are cutting out the duplication, so English Heritage will make the decision. I hope that the process will be much more transparent, that the owners will be notified and that there will be a much better description, in much more accessible language, of what is being listed and why. That would help. In response to my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport, I undertake to look further at how we can improve transparency. I will write to her about that. My hon. Friend talked about the separate roles of those with responsibility for listing—that is, English Heritage representatives—and those who give planning permission for listed building consent. We need to improve the professional and public understanding of those separate roles. I undertake to consider that and see what further work I can do, and I shall come back to my hon. Friend. English Heritage has the information, and I agree with my hon. Friend that in the interests of transparency it should be able to provide it. We are in much more difficult territory in respect of the criteria for listing. At present, there is a hierarchy of criteria. The statutory criteria relate to historical and architectural interest, and, as we have said, there is no discretion on selectivity. Beneath that lies the planning policy guidance note, which we are reviewing; we will see whether we can have regard to some of the issues raised tonight. Beneath that, English Heritage has introduced selection guides, which provide the technical information demonstrating the features that need to be considered. Again, we can look at that. However, if hon. Members wish, as they have suggested, to try to alter the statutory criteria, they will need to do so through the process of considering the Heritage Protection Bill. I have to say that that idea would be highly contentious for many other stakeholders in the heritage world. However, this conversation between parliamentarians and that world is important and needs to take place. My hon. Friend raised the issue of separate accounting. That is pretty difficult, but I have great sympathy with the motivation for it. Why should money set aside for education facilities be used to protect heritage assets? My hon. Friend's request is fraught with practical difficulties, but I shall have a look at it and come back to her. This debate has been really interesting. I thank hon. Members for their contributions, and I draw my comments to a close. Question put and agreed to. Adjourned accordingly at twelve minutes past Nine o'clock. Correction