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National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Social Welfare and Other Fields) Order 2008

Prior to the Division I was giving reassurances which I thought I ought to give to the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, on points that he raised and which were reinforced by his noble friend Lord Roberts of Conwy. I emphasise again that we intend to lay the proposed orders before Parliament at the same time so that both bodies can see the orders at the same time, as is advisable. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts, emphasised the possibility of joint working. It did not happen on this occasion, leading to the disadvantages that the noble Lords identified. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, also emphasised that orders should be narrowly focused. The orders have to be within the framework of the Government of Wales Act, as pieces of the devolution settlement; and the orders must have a clearly defined role, as the Act lays down. The Welsh Assembly is under a duty to ensure that the process is accurate. There may be wider issues which the Assembly thinks need to be addressed in policy, but it is for the Assembly to propose. If it agrees, it is then for this Parliament to make the decision whether, within the framework of the Government of Wales Act, the proposal before Parliament is acceptable. That is how we tackle such matters. I do not think that this proposal is unnecessarily wide. After all, the policy which it covers is quite discrete in terms of the care of children and young people. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, said that there were difficulties with the commissions and their operation between England and Wales. There are some difficulties, but however well legislation is framed, it still depends on how effectively people work within it. There will occasionally be possible difficulties but that is common to all legislation; in no way, shape or form is it a reflection of any failure of function in the orders put forward or in the powers of the Assembly in relation to the United Kingdom Parliament—it is more what happens on the ground.