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Saving Gateway Accounts Bill

I fear that I am coming to that conclusion, but it is difficult to believe that that is true. Treasury Minsters are not stupid, and they have had a long time to prepare the legislation, so one would have thought that they would have fitted in a few meetings, talked to private sector and nationalised banks, and come up with some answers. If they want to enthuse people to save, they must do better than just suggesting that if people put money away for 24 months they will receive a special taxpayers' subsidy to welcome them to the savings community. If Ministers are serious about people becoming long-term savers, what matters is the total package on offer, so that those concerned will want to roll their savings over when they have received the increment from the taxpayer and really adopt the savings habit. I am glad that the Government have run some pilots, as pilots can be very instructive. The Government have learned something from them, but the most important thing for me is what the rate of continued saving by the people who participated in the pilot will be after one, two or three years. Will they simply take all the money out and spend it once they have the Government cash, thereby ceasing to be savers, or will the process do something important? Will it trigger the idea in those individuals that saving is a good idea and that they can save a deposit for a property, save the money for a training course that can give them the skills to get a better job or save for some other capital purpose from which savers can reap the benefit when they genuinely gain the saving habit? The taxpayer's interest is being protected by Ministers limiting the amount that can be paid in. We are told that the maximum will be £25 a month for any individual over the two-year term of the proposed package. I can see the common sense of that, because a high bonus is being offered relative to the amount put in. One thing that the Government might need to explain in more detail to the Committee is why they chose that balance. Why not have a lower bonus rate, but allow a longer and bigger build-up of savings? Did the pilots really prove that we need such a big bonus element relative to the amount of money being put in to make the account attractive? Is that not rather more in the spirit of a lottery and rather less in the spirit of savings than we perhaps need if we are to get the savings habit going? I am delighted that the hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Browne) said that he and his party are now very much in favour of wider ownership. As an adviser who tried to lead the charge for wider ownership in the '80s for the then Government, I do not recall the Liberal Democrats being enthusiastic in those days. Nor do I accept his charge that people who were on lower incomes were excluded from the process. They were not excluded at all. I remember the lorry drivers of National Freight buying shares in their company on favourable terms and making a lot of money, and good luck to them.