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Carers

Indeed so. The Chairman talked about the contribution that the voluntary sector has made. He referred to the Princess Royal Trust, and Carers UK was also mentioned. I have met representatives of both organisations, and not just in the comfort of my lofty Whitehall office; I have also attended conferences. I can assure hon. Members that going to the Carers UK members conference and doing a question-and-answer session is good for one's health, because it brings one into close contact with the people whom the Committee met. One of my first jobs before coming to this place was as a care assistant. I have undertaken many of the tasks that carers do. Those tasks need not be referred to in detail in this debate, but I can assure hon. Members that I have been at the coal face. The difference—it would be right of people to bring this up—is that I left the establishment where I worked when I finished my shift. There is no end to the shift for carers, as the Government are acutely aware. As some hon. Members said, it is important to consider the context not just of other Departments, but of other services that are provided. For a carer or someone being cared for, the NHS is crucial. Does it not impact on someone's health if they have to wait more than 18 months for an operation? Absolutely. Does it not impact on someone's health if they have to wait up to two years for an operation? Absolutely. Does that happen now? All hon. Members will know from their constituencies that it does not. We have met our target of 18 weeks or less. If we had said to the 4 million carers in 1997, ““You will not wait longer than 18 weeks for your operation,”” they perhaps would not have believed us, but meeting that target has had a huge impact—not just for carers, but for all people. The party that I represent in government is very proud of that and I am sure that we are all pleased, because all our constituents benefit, and carers and people being cared for benefit in particular. Comments were made about the benefits system, and reference was made to the care and support system. The hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) talked about the ageing society. That is without doubt one of the big social policy issues that we have to grasp and find solutions to. There are competing demands and, yes, the situation is difficult. Gladly, we had the debate on pensions, and the House reached some consensus on it. I will be one of the first people working to the age of 66 to make the contributions, which is fine. There is the carer's allowance, and hon. Members have referred to the fact that people would prefer that it be increased. Should it continue to be universal? Should it be targeted as we grow older? The hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire (Mr. Heald) talked about a financial black hole caused by the ageing society, and also about eligibility. All those factors impact on carers and the people for whom they care, so we will publish the care and support Green Paper. From that, we need a wide debate about priorities, quality, affordability and whether measures are universal or targeted. Those are difficult issues for us. Just as we had the pensions debate—it took us a while, but we got there—we have to have a wide-ranging debate on this issue. It is important that we have that debate and bring people with us, so that they understand the complexities and difficult decisions. Carers are very much part of that. I hope that we can arrive at consensus in the same way that we did on pensions. If we do not take that approach, we will propose something and there will be resistance to the change, as there was to some welfare benefit reforms in the past. We need to deal with benefits reform and care and support in tandem as we proceed with this important reform.