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Public Houses

I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr. Robertson) and grateful that he has had the opportunity to discuss the future of pubs. I am also pleased to see the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) and my hon. Friend the Member for Selby (Mr. Grogan) in their places. I believe that they are all members of the all-party beer group and active participants in the beauty of drinking alcohol responsibly. This is an important debate, and part of a continuing one. The hon. Member for Tewkesbury mentioned the all-party group's report, to which I want to respond very shortly. He will know that a number of Departments are involved in that response, and I shall co-ordinate it because the Department for Culture, Media and Sport is, I hope, the champion of the licensing industry. He referred to the fact that I enjoy the odd tipple—in fact, he knows that I am a keen pub goer and was pleased to support the "Proud of Pubs" week last year. I pay tribute to Phil, the landlord, Jenny, his wife, and the excellent staff of my local pub, The Glen in Gilstead. I look forward to their excellent service this weekend, when I hope to be there. It was good to see so many parliamentarians attending the recent summit arranged in the House by the all-party beer group. It was clear from the excellent turnout ranging across MPs, Ministers, the industry and licensees, and from the quality of the debate, that there was concern about the role of pubs and their importance to our constituents. I and my ministerial colleagues recognise that the pub industry faces difficult times, and we want to address the issues and recommendations raised. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the number of pubs closing is alarming, and that the number of jobs lost and the impact on the economy are serious issues. I understand some of the frustrations of the pub sector with what it sees as the cumulative impact of Government measures, but those alone are not the cause of pub closures, as was identified in the excellent debate—the hon. Gentleman raised some of the issues in that regard. We need to consider the role of tied houses and other pub companies, which, through differential pricing and the rents charged, have an impact on landlords. Although I understand the issues in relation to duty and regulation, I will discuss with colleagues in the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how we can better understand the sector and provide help. The ideas about the role that community pubs can play are excellent. The hon. Gentleman gave examples of what goes on in pubs, whether sport, which is important to me, as the Sports Minister, or other activities. In a rural setting, the pub is important in providing services to the local community. We need to consider those matters. Although we take seriously the concerns expressed by the trade about many issues, I am afraid that I disagree with the hon. Gentleman about the smoke-free legislation, which is and should be a benefit to pubs. Given my role before I became an MP, he will not be surprised that workers' rights and public health are close to my heart. I believe that the restrictions introduced were the right way forward. A number of pubs have come up with ingenious solutions, in consultation with local authorities, to enable them to accommodate smokers. The debate will rumble on, but the majority of people backed our efforts. The hon. Gentleman was right to talk about responsible and supervised, as opposed to irresponsible, drinking. He will be concerned, as I am and many responsible pub owners are, about alcohol-related crime and disorder, and the need to treat and deal with those who cannot handle drink and commit crime as a result. In many cases, customers are put off going to pubs in town centres, for example, because of the violence that takes place. We want to see the growth of community pubs, but we must acknowledge the wider public intentions of policy to tackle such problems. We want to achieve a balance. I will respond to the all-party beer group, whose inquiry was important and dealt with well. I was pleased to give evidence to it, and it came up with a range of recommendations based on detailed consideration of the views of a variety of witnesses. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government will give a response soon, although it would be wrong to say exactly what it will be. Whatever the group feels about the outcome, I want to ensure that the message gets through that Ministers are aware of the current campaign and that the concerns are being heard. We have taken some measures, such as the decision to extend the enterprise credit guarantee scheme to all types of smaller pubs, which has helped many tied pubs in particular. In relation to legislation for which I am responsible in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, I have placed orders before the House that would introduce a simpler process for making minor variations to licences, and to increase the stakes and prizes for pub gaming machines. Previously, I have also committed myself to measures to improve other aspects of the licensing regime. We will reflect on the issues raised by the hon. Gentleman today. Although the measures that we can take are important, they will not in themselves secure the viability of the trade or ensure that it can see out the economic downturn. How, then, should the pub trade help itself to respond to the challenges? The hon. Gentleman has already offered some solutions, but let me repeat that, in my view, community pubs could have a bright future. The issues raised by the hon. Gentleman were reflected in a recent seminar conducted by the Institute for Public Policy Research, which presented all sides of the argument. I was particularly pleased to hear a representative of Alcohol Concern say that the idea of community pubs service was a good one. The debate about alcohol-related health problems has sometimes featured the argument that those who are concerned about them do not understand the issues surrounding pubs, but Alcohol Concern was clearly prepared to support community pubs because they promoted responsible drinking. I consider that to be a major breakthrough. It is possible that pubs could become community businesses. I know that my colleagues in the Department for Communities and Local Government are discussing the possibility that rate support and other support could be given to pubs. Pubs have a great record of reinventing themselves and adjusting to changing demands—by offering better food, as many now do, or by offering more family-friendly premises. Sunday afternoon satellite television is important in securing the football market. I note what was said about that by the hon. Member for Ribble Valley. We must get that right. We speak of the decade of sport and the need to persuade more people to participate in sport. People want to see their role models on television, particularly footballers. We need to speak to representatives of Sky and Setanta, and similar providers, to see what they can do for the smaller pub—for pubs that are not part of a big chain that can afford the fee. I undertake to ensure that we at least talk to them about the possibility. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the wider review of issues related to sport shown on terrestrial television, in which my hon. Friend the Member for Selby is heavily involved, but I think that he made a fair point. The editor of the Morning Advertiser wrote in June last year that some of the current challenges had accelerated the decline in pubs that could not adapt to modern demands. That loss is sad, but we must ensure that we provide an opportunity for the pubs that remain to emerge successfully from the present downturn. I believe that that can be done if we adopt a positive attitude. Yes, there are issues to which the Government should respond with tax-related and other measures, although they should be seen in the round and in the context of all the other spending issues with which Government are faced. Given that the all-party beer group is the largest group in Parliament, it is perhaps surprising that only five of us are present this afternoon. However, I am sure that the group's other members will be watching our debate avidly on television, back in their constituencies, to see what I have to say about the outcome for pubs.