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Arms Export Controls

I can confirm only that I have read that in press reports, so the Minister might be the best person to answer the factual question. I picked F-16s because of their unique role in conflict in the middle east, but I could equally have selected Apaches. I have read in the press that Apaches were used—no doubt the Minister will respond to that point. On direct exports to Israel, the Minister said, in the 21 January evidence session, that the Government would not issue a licence where they had human rights or other concerns under the consolidated criteria. He also said that it was not clear which equipment had been used in the recent conflict, and that that was being investigated. Will the Minister advise the House as to the outcome of that investigation? Let me speak personally on this issue. I have heard similar sentiments to mine expressed by other members of the Committee, but this is not the Committee's policy. I have always had some difficulty in understanding the practice of UK policy on this issue. Leaving the incorporation issue aside, the policy has been that licences would not be granted for arms export sales to Israel if there was a risk that they would be used in the occupied territories. We all know the UK Government's position on the legal status in the middle east, so it is hardly surprising that that would be a desirable thing to do, but I have never understood how that policy works in practice. Do the Israel defence forces have one stash of weapons with a Union Jack on it, which it has been told it cannot use in the occupied territories, and another stash that it can use in Gaza, the west bank and east Jerusalem? I genuinely do not understand how that works. There is another issue that I do not understand. Like everyone else in the Chamber, I am sure, I condemn violence unequivocally. One reason why I wanted to be a member of the Committee when it was set up is that I believe that conflict represents the failure of diplomacy, as the cliché goes. I think that we should try to resolve conflicts without violence wherever humanly possible, and that we should certainly try to control the arms trade to ensure that arms do not get into the wrong hands. I passionately believe that it is deplorable that Hamas sends rockets into Israel, and I believe that Israel's armed intervention in the occupied territories, some of which I have seen, is equally deplorable. I am even-handed on this issue, but our policy on arms exports and embargoes is not even-handed. On one hand, we have Israel, the most powerful military state in the middle east, being in breach of countless United Nations resolutions and in illegal occupation of much of the middle east, but there is no arms embargo on it. On the other hand, there is an arms embargo on Hamas. I am not a defender of either side; I simply make the observation that it is extraordinary that there is no such arms embargo, given the conflict over the years and certainly the recent conflict in Gaza. Why is that? There was an announcement that the UK Government would do all that they could to prevent arms from getting into Gaza. That is fine, but there was no announcement at the same time that there would be an embargo on arms sales to Israel. I find that double standard difficult to comprehend, and it prompts me to ask what Israel would have to do in the middle east to qualify for an arms embargo. I do not raise this issue flippantly, and I do not believe that my view will command universal support. Indeed, I have been verbally abused by otherwise reasonable people for expressing such views. I am simply asking why there is that double standard in arms export control policy in the middle east. That question deserves an answer. Finally, let me address the happier topic of the international arms trade treaty. Our report concluded that the Government were to be commended for and supported in their efforts to achieve a comprehensive and effective international arms trade treaty. In December, a large majority of Governments voted in favour of a UN General Assembly resolution to establish an open-ended working group on such a treaty. The only state to vote against the resolution was the United States, but perhaps it will change its view in a few months. I hope that it does. Of course, there were also a number of abstentions. Non-governmental organisations were adamant, in their evidence to the Committees, that if the scope of the treaty was not wide enough, the UK should not be a signatory to it. I have two questions for the Minister on that. First, what took place at the first open-ended working group on the treaty? Secondly, does he share the NGOs' concerns about its scope? There are many other topics that I could discuss, such as bribery and corruption, but in fairness to colleagues who wish to speak, and to give the Minister plenty of time to respond to the long list of questions that is building up, I shall conclude. I reiterate that the Committees believe that the Government have made substantial progress in recent years on controlling UK arms exports, and that we are pleased that they have accepted a number of our recommendations. We recognise that they have also disagreed with a number of recommendations, but honest people may have different views. However, we have real concerns about the issues that I have raised in the past half an hour and the issues that colleagues will raise. We want further progress to be made on extraterritorial controls, which should be a simple matter. We also want the Government to do their level best to ensure that the re-exporting of UK arms does not continue to be a problem. All of us, whatever our views on arms sales to Israel, would also desperately like to know what the Government's policy on the issue is. There are therefore big issues to consider further, and I am grateful that the Minister is here to respond to all our questions.