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Newspapers: Surveillance Methods

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and I am sorry that it has put him in a rather difficult position. Since the Statement was made, the Met has ruled out the need for any further investigation, which seems astonishing as it has had barely six hours to establish whether there was anything to investigate further. Six hours does not seem anything like an adequate amount of time to do that. Is the Minister satisfied with the role of the police? The original investigation into the News of the World bugging scandal was carried out by the anti-terrorist police because of the security implications around the fact that royal phones had been bugged. Counter Terrorism Command, CO15, took the controversial decision not to inform the other public figures whose phones had been targeted. Why was that? Was that under the guise of counterterrorism and things that need to be kept secret, but that should not have been? What did the police tell the Director of Public Prosecutions at that time? What did he know about the volume of tapping that had been going on? Did he know and decide not to take action, or did they not tell him? The Met still faces a large number of questions about whether senior officers intervened not only in phone tapping but also, as the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, has pointed out, as regards the amount of illegal buying of data that has been going on. Were the police aware of that? There could be about an hour’s worth of questions on this incident and on the roles of many individuals and institutions, including the role of the PCC. Sir Christopher Meyer was chair at the time of the Coulson debacle. The PCC’s subsequent report failed to uncover any substantial evidence. But the Information Commissioner, who was the only person to come out of this with any credibility, asked the PCC to issue a clear public statement warning journalists and editors of the very real risk of committing criminal offences. The PCC resisted doing that and just produced guidance which the Information Commissioner at the time found very disappointing. Now I turn to the role of Parliament and this House. In 2008, during the passage of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill, under Clause 75, we debated whether there should be a prison sentence of two years for people, including journalists, who were caught unlawfully obtaining personal data. But we also debated whether there should be a special defence for journalism and, if so, what that defence should be. During the passage of that Act, the legal manager of News International, Alastair Brett, e-mailed me and sought a meeting. News International was most concerned at the idea of the increased tariffs or diminished defences. Now we can see why. It put tremendous pressure on the Government to drop the idea of prison sentences for journalists being included in the Act. Was it actually the Prime Minister who instructed that that legislation be dropped? At the end of the debate on that Act, the conclusion was that we would not include it in the Bill, but that it would be brought in by order if necessary. Will that order now be brought in urgently so that when those who have been organising these appalling systematic intrusions into people’s private lives have been on trial, they will get the punishment that they deserve, rather than a paltry fine? The fact that we did not pass this to go in the Bill seems a tremendous mistake now. That order needs to be brought in urgently. When the News International chairman, Les Hinton, was giving evidence to the Select Committee, he said that the phone hacking was a one-off case. If the Guardian evidence is to be believed, there is a lot of disdain for Parliament, and an immense amount of illegal action has been going on, which should result in a criminal record for a large number of people. I can completely understand why Members on the Conservative Front Bench do not want to mention Mr Coulson. Undoubtedly, they feel contaminated by their association with him. There is no doubt that some of this custom and practice developed on his watch. No one could seriously believe that it suddenly developed overnight after he had left. For the sake of their credibility on privacy issues and law and order, I hope the Conservatives will join me in calling, at least, for the order to be enacted. I hope the Minister will confirm tonight that it will be enacted, so that when an investigation takes place—as it should and I hope he will press the police on this matter—and, eventually, when this comes to trial, there will be a proper punishment.