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Newspapers: Surveillance Methods

My Lords, I apologise for being overdressed but I have just come from a wonderful party, given by Her Majesty at Buckingham Palace, for the Fleet Air Arm on its 100th year, which I know the whole House will want to celebrate. The noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, quite rightly said that this action is quite unacceptable. The judge in the Goodman trial said that is not about press freedom: It has nothing to do with press freedom. We all believe in press freedom but this is a grave and serious invasion of privacy and data belonging to single individuals. That is exactly what it is. Under RIPA, it is against the law to intercept and take data in this way and the penalty can be up to two years’ imprisonment or a fine. One can already put people away for two years under RIPA. It has been a fast-moving scene today. I was first aware of this story when I listened to the "Today" programme this morning; that is probably the same for the Home Secretary and my right honourable friend David Hanson in the other place. Since then, this afternoon there was a statement by the assistant commissioner for specialist operations, John Yates, who is a highly experienced police officer. He is very clear in that statement that the original investigation was thorough and that the prosecution decisions, based on the available evidence, were fully considered by the CPS and leading counsel. I have no reason to second-guess that or the agency or counsel’s opinion. However, he also said at the end of his statement: ""I need to make sure that we have been diligent, reasonable and sensible and informed anyone who may have been a victim of phone tapping"." I did not hear him make the statement but I take that to mean that there is more work going on, and he is still looking at this in more detail. I do not believe that it was his final statement. I assume that that is correct but I will certainly check later to make sure that it is what is happening. There has also been a statement from the DPP. He has said that the CPS will look at this whole issue again. John Whittingdale, the head of the Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee is reopening the investigation. A number of people will be looking at this. I want to be very wary of making quick statements because I have learnt from bitter experience that, when something sudden and urgent happens, the worst thing possible is to make snap judgments and statements about it. We need to sit back and get all of this information to see exactly what happened and then take some balanced decisions. I am afraid that I am not fully au fait with the Information Commissioner’s report of 2006. I will certainly make sure that I look at it and I know that the Government will look at it because these are extremely important issues. We would be silly to pretend that, over history, people have not tried to find out information about each other. There are ways of doing it that are probably acceptable and there are ways that are not. We must draw a clear line, realising that when they are not acceptable and allowable, we need to ensure that we are able to protect people. Indeed, for electronic data and so on, the recent cybersecurity strategy that we produced tries to achieve exactly that for the individual as well as for the nation, big industries and so on. The noble Baroness made a very good point about government databases. I am not sure of the answer as regards the DVLA database but I shall get back to her in writing on that. The police national database is absolutely secure and is very well looked after. A lot of work has been done on that. Indeed, a lot of work has been done to tighten up databases. Let us not kid ourselves: we do not have a good record as regards looking after data. That applies not just to this Government but to our nation, companies and everyone. As I have said previously on the Floor of the House, we all need to get a lot better at this because data are where we are today and we must make sure that we look after them properly. As I say, I am happy as regards the police national database and will get back to the noble Baroness about the DVLA database. The noble Baronesses, Lady Neville-Jones and Lady Miller, both referred to the Press Complaints Commission. Again, I am not exactly sure what was said about that at the time. This is part of what we will have to look at because it is all part of the totality of seeing where we go from here. Very serious issues have been raised which we absolutely need to bottom out. I have touched on the fact that I think the Met will look at this further. That is what I assume from the Statement. I will check that and if I am wrong about it I will get back to the House on that issue. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, referred to the role of Parliament and imposing sentences on people who invade the privacy of others. I am afraid that I was not privy to the debate about the two-year sentence. As I say, there is a two-year penalty in RIPA.