---

National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Social Welfare) Order 2009

Before I respond to the Minister, I congratulate him on joining the Wales Office and welcome him to it. I hope that he will have a happy and enjoyable time there, and I assure him that all the usual suspects from this House who take part in Welsh affairs are assembled in the Moses Room. I hope he will appreciate the value of their attendance on many occasions. They all have considerably more experience than I have. Having gone that far, however, I will say a few things about the orders in the same order in which the Minister took them. The first time I read the Explanatory Note on the National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Exceptions to Matters) Order 2009, I wondered where I was. It made absolutely no sense to me at all. I read both the order and the Explanatory Note several times and finally found my way through it, but I congratulate the Minister and his officials on simplifying it for us all. Although we are dealing with them as one, the Government separated one order into two pieces, which makes it much easier to understand and much clearer. As the Minister has said, the order will amend the Government of Wales Act 2006 by inserting a new matter, matter 15.9, into field 15. The new matter would give the Assembly Government legislative competence to support the provision of care by carers and to promote the well-being of carers, and I join the Minister in wishing all carers well and thanking them for their great work in looking after those of us who need carers and are less able. The report of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee, which conducted pre-legislative scrutiny of the proposed order, points out, as indeed is pointed out in the Explanatory Memorandum, that Wales has a higher proportion of carers than any region of England or Scotland, together with the highest proportion of people suffering from long-term illness, permanent sickness and disability among the economically inactive population. It is worth noting here that under the present crisis the economy of Wales is probably very close to being the worst, if not the worst, in the United Kingdom. That of north-east Scotland may be a little worse but, for the population, Wales is in a poor way, and I am sure that as time goes on its carers will be badly needed. The Welsh Assembly Government already have a significant level of devolved secondary competence in respect of social welfare. It might be said, therefore, that the proposed order is a logical extension of the existing devolved competence. However, I feel it appropriate to draw attention to the criticism contained in the Select Committee’s report that greater use could have been made of existing powers already vested in the Assembly Government. This is one of the matters that we are concerned about: the Assembly is gaining competence but we are not always happy that it makes best use of it. For example, the Assembly Government have issued no guidance under the Carers (Equal Opportunities) Act 2004, whereas in England such guidance was issued within 12 months of the engagement of that legislation. The Assembly Government should not be seeking primary competence where existing secondary competence has not been utilised. Indeed, the Select Committee criticised the Assembly Government for their failure to make full use of their existing power in that regard. The Select Committee did, however, point out that the Government did not act on their commitment to introduce secondary legislation providing for duties to be placed on the National Health Service to provide for the needs of carers. It is regrettable that this was not done, and I notice that it is the intention of the Assembly Government to introduce such provisions consequent upon the making of the legislative competence order. Some matters arise on which I would appreciate clarification. First, any Assembly measures passed after the making of the order will potentially result in additional obligations being placed on local authorities. Can the Minister say whether, from his discussions with the Assembly Government, it is intended that those local authorities will be compensated by way of increased financial support for the cost of complying with those duties? Secondly, the Select Committee drew attention to the cross-border implications of any legislation that may flow from the making of the legislative competence order. It is not impossible—indeed, it is highly likely, especially in the case of north-east Wales—that the carers and the cared-for may live on different sides of the border. What discussions has the Minister had with his colleagues in the Welsh Assembly and the Secretary of State for Health as to how these cross-border issues will be dealt with when measures are brought forward? Subject to what I have just said, I have no further comments to make on this order. I turn to the National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Exceptions to Matters) Order, which I found more complicated to work through. This is really a tidying-up order and is, I believe, a very sound move and one that I welcome. It tidies up what is in fact a very messy way of maintaining exceptions to devolved matters where legislative competence for a matter is transferred to the Assembly but that matter would otherwise include a function which was not exercisable by Welsh Ministers and therefore could not be devolved back to the Assembly. When the Assembly was given legislative competence with respect to vulnerable children, a specific exclusion had to be made to cover the use of motor vehicles, road traffic offences and various other non-devolved areas, which resulted in a table consisting of 25 repetitive lines. The proposed order would create a general exception for non-devolved highways and transport and social welfare functions. This is a positive step, although it was not envisaged at the time of the passage of the Bill that the legislative competence order process would be utilised in this manner. Nevertheless, it has the effect of making the schedule not only look different, but it reads better without changing the substance of the powers devolved. To that extent, it is a good proposal and we welcome it.