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Coroners and Justice Bill

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord. At the beginning of his response, he said that it was no part of the Government’s intention to threaten the independence of judges. Of course it is not—the independence of judges will remain as it has always been. The question is whether the Bill reduces the discretion of judges in sentencing. It is clear from everything that has been said, even by the Minister, that it will reduce the discretion of judges. That was the view of the majority of the Gage committee—otherwise they would not have made the recommendation that they did, which has been followed by the Government. The Government have not made a case for changing the existing practice of judges in having regard to guidelines. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, put his finger on that critical point. The case has not been made, and certainly not at this time, with the new council just coming into effect. Let us look at it again in a few years if we must—but not today. I wish to test the opinion of the House. Division on Amendment 83 Contents 66; Not-Contents 124. Amendment 83 disagreed. Amendments 84 and 85 not moved. Clause 116 : Determination of tariffs etc Clause 116 : Determination of tariffs etc Amendments 86 to 89 not moved. Clause 117 : Resource implications of guidelines Amendment 89ZA Clause 117 : Resource implications of guidelines Amendment 89ZA Moved by