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Welfare Reform Bill

My Lords, we know that there are ways of making a point when somebody wants to. We note that the noble Lord did not take the opportunity to do that. There will be other opportunities to explore that situation. The noble Lord, Lord Freud, prayed in aid John Grogan and his contribution at the other end. He has a view but I remind the noble Lord and other noble Lords that, in the amendment before us today, the Government’s position was passed by the other House—the elected Chamber—by a considerable majority. That in itself ought to persuade us today. The noble Lord is right in the sense that the sanctions regime that I have outlined and which we want to test as part of the pilots would have a not inconsiderable lead time before one gets to a financial sanction. It is right that it should. That is why we need those protections in place. I hope that the noble Lord would support that. Like my noble friend Lady Hollis, I think that it was unfortunate to refer to this issue as a political football, because we have covered a lot of ground in this House during the progression of the Bill. We have improved it immensely. We have had some quite intense and important debates about what it means, what its parameters should be and how we can best move to do something that I think we all want, which is to help people to move closer to and into the labour market. To characterise it in that way was, I think, unfortunate. Perhaps I have said enough. I gather that the noble Lord is not seeking to oppose what I have moved today. It is up to him. I commend the Motion. Motion agreed.