---

National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Culture and Other Fields) Order 2010

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their broad support for the measure, while having some pertinent questions to which I shall do my best to reply—leaving the most difficult one until the end, if I may. I begin with the most straightforward question. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, was anxious about whether the three floating exceptions removed from the LCO could impact on the three matters in the order. They do not impact on the three matters in the order at all. I can confirm that position. That question was addressed in consultation. It is right of the noble Lord to seek that assurance, which I can give him categorically. The interesting and more difficult question to answer—I left the most difficult question until the end—theoretically is whether the LCO will result in a minimum standard of lower cultural provision being created in authorities, because once one makes a position universal, there is a danger that the bedding down of that universality will be below that already provided in the best circumstances. That is an important consideration and I reflect that the Welsh Assembly Government were concerned about this matter. They want to preserve flexibility for individual local authorities to determine and to meet the cultural provision needs of their communities. As will be appreciated, on certain archaeological and historic aspects, local authorities have very different levels of needs and responsibilities because of somewhat chance factors. In putting forward this proposal, the Welsh Assembly Government have stated quite clearly that they are mindful of the danger of an unwanted impact on loan provision in some areas, which is already high because a minimum seems to be set. They have to be trusted to meet that objective. After all, the whole point of a legislative competence order is that the responsibility will rest with the Welsh Assembly Government. Their responses in support of this position indicate how mindful they are of the very point raised by the noble Lord and provide some security that we will not see this measure produce a reduction to a common minimum. When one thinks about the differential provision of cultural opportunities across Wales, it will be recognised that the sheer diversity of that country means that those who are the most fortunate through historical factors such as past investment and the resources of the local authority will scarcely set their standards by the minimum of the less well resourced and well blessed of the authorities, the disparity being so great. I do not think we should worry about this too much, but I appreciate the point. The noble Lord, Lord Livsey, mentioned the explanation in the explanatory note. It is subject to the general restrictions in Part 2B of the Government of Wales Act, which covers the limitations on conferring functions on Ministers of the Crown or creating criminal offences. All those were part of the Government of Wales Act, so I hope he will appreciate that that is the context in which this order is being presented. On an issue which no doubt exercises all noble Lords who have addressed themselves to it: what is the point of a cultural minimum and an increased obligation on local authorities if those authorities are strapped for cash as regards meeting the obligations they already have? In formulating their statutory duties, the Welsh Assembly Government have already made it absolutely clear that they will take funding issues fully into account in taking forward proposals on this statutory duty. The opportunity for law making that we are seeking to extend to the Assembly Government is not within the timeframe we all expect of the present economic difficulties. After all, this will be a legislative possibility for many years to come. Of course, the Welsh Assembly Government will take decisions and reach conclusions on the basis of the resources they have available. I want to emphasise in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, that under the partnership agreement with local government there is a requirement that all new burdens on local authorities in Wales are funded, so the Welsh Assembly Government know exactly where they stand in regard to the legislative burden. Consequently, we are bound to assume that they will cut their suit according to their cloth in the immediate future.