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Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Perhaps I may finish my argument and then the noble Lord can come back. I made the point, which I think is very valid, that with a quasi-federal state there would be no logical stopping point. Therefore, at that time I personally became closer to the Liberal policy of moving more closely towards federalism. I felt that popular pressures would lead us inexorably along that road and possibly to independence for Wales. I was convinced that the people of Wales did not want that and my view was vindicated in the 1979 referendum, when the people of Wales, by a majority of four to one, rejected what the noble Lord was putting forward. However, I changed my mind. Perhaps I may also say in passing that I was never guilty of using the Welsh language argument. Although I am monoglot, I have immense pride in the Welsh language, so long as language is not used as a divisive matter, as it is in Belgium. Therefore, I tried to deploy serious and reasonable arguments at that time, and on balance I was convinced—Mrs Thatcher was my tutor in that—about the centralisation which came about in the 1980s during the years of Thatcherism. I thought it only proper that my country, Wales, should be safeguarded so far as possible, and therefore, although I did not become a strong advocate, in my judgment the balance had changed. I supported the argument and voted yes in the 1997 referendum.