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Police Restructuring

Secondary information

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

440 c1581-676 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Proposed changes to the police force in Wales. Minutes of evidence 6 December 2005. (Vote)
Tuesday, 6 December 2005
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Speaker | 440 c1610 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind all right hon. and hon. Members that Mr. Speaker has imposed a 10-minute limit o...

Paul Flynn | 440 c1592 (Link to this contribution) The Association of Police Authorities has estimated that because of the start-up cost plus equalisat...

Show all contributions (261)

Charles Clarke | 440 c1592 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows from our previous conversations about the matter, the figures that he is plu...

David Davis | 440 c1594 (Link to this contribution) I give my hon. Friend the undertaking that we will ensure that we have the opportunity to vote on ei...

Viscount Hailsham | 440 c1594 (Link to this contribution) : Will my right hon. Friend give way?

David Davis | 440 c1594 (Link to this contribution) Before I do, I want to say that in my 18 years in the House, I witnessed only one occasion on which ...

Viscount Hailsham | 440 c1594 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his courtesy. Does he accept that the people of Lincolnshi...

Keith Simpson | 440 c1592 (Link to this contribution) Many hon. Members on both sides of the House understand the Home Secretary’s argument about the requ...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1592-3 (Link to this contribution) We are not into chaos theory in any respect, but I am not sure whether the uniformity that the hon. ...

David Davis | 440 c1593-4 (Link to this contribution) The matter that we are debating—the prospective reduction of 43 police forces to 12—is enormously im...

Lord Cormack | 440 c1594 (Link to this contribution) : Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that very early in the new year the official Oppositio...

Lord Redwood | 440 c1595 (Link to this contribution) This debate is about money and people—how we can afford the specialist skills that we need in our po...

David Davis | 440 c1595 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right. In fact, it is a double disgrace—first, that those numbers are not av...

Robert Key | 440 c1596 (Link to this contribution) When it comes to operational policing, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that this deb...

David Davis | 440 c1596 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The whole approach has been entirely insufficient from a parliamentary poin...

David Davis | 440 c1596 (Link to this contribution) The options are enormous. I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (Robert Key).

Peter Luff | 440 c1595-6 (Link to this contribution) : Does my right hon. Friend share my amazement that the original proposals, on the basis of which re...

David Davis | 440 c1595 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. That is the core of the matter. We believe that this is all happening ...

Patrick Hall | 440 c1595 (Link to this contribution) I heard the right hon. Gentleman this morning on Radio 4 when he was very relaxed and talked about t...

Andrew Miller | 440 c1586 (Link to this contribution) May I give my right hon. Friend another point of view—from Cheshire? I agree with the strategy that ...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1586 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to point both to the effectiveness of the Kent police authority and the ...

Andrew Miller | 440 c1586 (Link to this contribution) It has done it.

Charles Clarke | 440 c1586 (Link to this contribution) I say with all courtesy to all forces in the north-west, including Greater Manchester, that no one c...

Julian Brazier | 440 c1586 (Link to this contribution) In Kent, we have a force that is near the top of the league by most of the Government’s measures. It...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1585-6 (Link to this contribution) If I am genuinely second to none in the admiration of my hon. Friend, I am in real trouble. [Interru...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1586 (Link to this contribution) It does not have the ability to do that. As I said to the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier), ...

Gerald Howarth | 440 c1586-7 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary says that he will listen to all points of view and that he wants to consider ever...

Gerald Howarth | 440 c1587 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I apologise.

Charles Clarke | 440 c1588 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member for Ryedale (Mr. Greenway) made his point very clea...

Speaker | 440 c1588 (Link to this contribution) Order. Mr. Secretary Clarke is replying to an intervention. Perhaps hon. Members would allow him to ...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1587-8 (Link to this contribution) North Yorkshire police and forces throughout the country have an outstanding record in dealing with ...

John Greenway | 440 c1587 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for City of York (Hugh Bayley) referred to North Yorkshire, which is England’s bigge...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1587 (Link to this contribution) I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance. First, the Government’s position, which was set ...

Hugh Bayley | 440 c1587 (Link to this contribution) I readily acknowledge the economies of scale if forces merge that ought to release resources for fro...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1587 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of funding, we have established that fund precisely to meet the request from the Associ...

Owen Paterson | 440 c1588 (Link to this contribution) Is the Home Secretary aware of the serious doubts about the statistics behind ““Closing the Gap””? H...

Emily Thornberry | 440 c1588 (Link to this contribution) Reference has been made to Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary. Does my right hon. Friend agr...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1588 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and referred to that statement earlier. My hon. Friend is quite right, however, to draw att...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1588-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr. Paterson) will make his points when he make...

Speaker | 440 c1588 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is not supposed to be a speech, but an intervention.

Charles Clarke | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to say that there is a difference of opinion between some senior officers an...

Peter Kilfoyle | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that anyone would argue with the thrust of the Home Secretary’s argument about effici...

Viscount Hailsham | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Viscount Hailsham | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Charles Clarke | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way. I want to make more progress.

Charles Clarke | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not. I have told the right hon. and learned Gentleman that twice. I will not give way to...

Viscount Hailsham | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Of course I recognise that it is for the Home Secretary t...

Lord Beith | 440 c1591 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary deal with the questions that we cannot get an answer to in this time scale? ...

Speaker | 440 c1590 (Link to this contribution) Order. Once again, could the House please settle down? It is in the gift of the Home Secretary to de...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1589-90 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. My experience of the quality of interventions over the past fiv...

Lord Cormack | 440 c1591-2 (Link to this contribution) Could the Home Secretary please explain to the House why he is proceeding at such speed? This is the...

Albert Owen | 440 c1591 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased that my right hon. Friend is concentrating on local policing, on which many Member...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1591 (Link to this contribution) Both issues will be addressed in the context of the proposals that will come to me by the end of thi...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1592 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should remind this very senior Member of the House that, under the law as it stands, if I ...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1581 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that we are in a position today, as promised, to hold a debate in Government time on ...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1582 (Link to this contribution) I will take every view on board. For precisely the reasons that I shall explain in a moment, I wan...

Daniel Kawczynski | 440 c1582 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary said at the beginning of his speech that the process would be undertaken only wit...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1582 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right. He makes the powerful point that the police have always been up fo...

Martin Salter | 440 c1582 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary will be aware that Thames Valley police force is an example of the successful ama...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1583 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely correct. The case of the Nottinghamshire force gives us an excellent illu...

Paddy Tipping | 440 c1582-3 (Link to this contribution) Her Majesty’s inspectorate and the Home Secretary will know about the difficulties that Nottinghamsh...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1582 (Link to this contribution) I said that I would give way in a moment. Without action to address the problem, the situation is l...

Lord Redwood | 440 c1581 (Link to this contribution) Is the Home Secretary aware that the Thames Valley police authority told me today that it has no fig...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1581 (Link to this contribution) It does not mean that in any respect whatever. I shall come to the points that the right hon. Gentle...

Nick Palmer | 440 c1584 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary for taking another intervention. Does he accept that, in additio...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1584 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to say that mutual aid is an essential part of the way in which our poli...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1584 (Link to this contribution) I believe that people want precisely what my hon. Friend says they want: strong, vibrant, resilient ...

Gwyneth Dunwoody | 440 c1585 (Link to this contribution) I am second to none in my admiration for my right hon. Friend. The logic of the argument is that we ...

Peter Luff | 440 c1583 (Link to this contribution) Why have the Government not given more consideration to the federation of forces option? May I dra...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1583 (Link to this contribution) This is an interesting discussion. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to say that some people think t...

Ed Balls | 440 c1583 (Link to this contribution) I understand that my right hon. Friend must consider the difficult and complex issues of terrori...

James Paice | 440 c1583-4 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary mentioned a murder that took place 10 years ago in Norfolk and its impact on the ...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1619-20;440 c1619 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way. Having established such a structure, the Government should focus on other ...

Albert Owen | 440 c1622 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman was present when the Home Secretary made his opening remark...

Mark Tami | 440 c1620 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

Albert Owen | 440 c1620 (Link to this contribution) I was about to argue that the Liberal Democrats are part of the official Opposition, and I am sure t...

David Jones | 440 c1622 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has raised a number of powerful and important points against an all-Wales police ...

Albert Owen | 440 c1620-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a little progress if I can, because I want to add the very important Welsh dimension ...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1620;440 c1619-20 (Link to this contribution) I guarantee that, if the Government are prepared to hold a debate on a serious day when we can vote ...

Ian Lucas | 440 c1620;440 c1619 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the hon. Gentleman’s important speech. Can he explain why none of the Liber...

Martin Horwood | 440 c1620 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think it disgraceful that none of the Labour Members from Gloucestershire is...

Albert Owen | 440 c1620 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to address an important issue for Members of Parliament from Wales. It should be import...

Lord Beamish | 440 c1619 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mark Oaten | 440 c1619 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being mischievous. We know where the critical points are in this country, wher...

Lord Beamish | 440 c1619 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the notion of a border police force. Durham has a very long and now beautiful coa...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1619;440 c1618-9 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of respect for the right hon. Gentleman, who is the Chairman of the Home Affairs...

John Denham | 440 c1619;440 c1618 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman expand his argument? SOCA does not have huge numbers of people working for it...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1618 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman misses the point. His accusation could have been levelled at the Government when ...

Mark Tami | 440 c1618 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that we have an American-style FBI?

Mark Oaten | 440 c1618 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is correct and I shall clarify the model that we are suggesting. First, we should have...

Gwyneth Dunwoody | 440 c1618 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in that point. Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that some aspects of policing, inclu...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1618 (Link to this contribution) In some of the examples that have been given there is little connection between the communities invo...

Roger Gale | 440 c1626-8 (Link to this contribution) Once again, I place on the record the fact that this is not the debate that the House wanted. On 2...

Pat McFadden | 440 c1628-9 (Link to this contribution) Police force reorganisation will affect every community in the country. At its heart is this fundame...

Peter Luff | 440 c1629 (Link to this contribution) : Has the hon. Gentleman seen the briefing by the Association of Police Authorities stating that"““t...

Pat McFadden | 440 c1629 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly not the view of the chief constable of the west midlands police force, to whom I s...

Paul Flynn | 440 c1622 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will recall that the four chief constables said a year ago that they were all opposed...

Albert Owen | 440 c1622-3;440 c1622 (Link to this contribution) That is the point that I made when I said that our chief constables are not showing the leadership t...

Albert Owen | 440 c1623 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows that I could not possibly answer that question, but it is one of the serious is...

David Leslie Taylor | 440 c1623 (Link to this contribution) May I offer my hon. Friend a word of caution? Any cross-border collaboration with Cheshire might hav...

Albert Owen | 440 c1623 (Link to this contribution) That is the point I made earlier. We have invested additional resources into local policing and we a...

Mark Tami | 440 c1623;440 c1622-3 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend join me in recognising that, to get the extra money in the precept, it was impor...

Martyn Jones | 440 c1625-6 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Minister will recall that I took part in the police parliamentary scheme wi...

Lord Howard of Lympne | 440 c1624-5;440 c1623-5 (Link to this contribution) The chief constable of Gloucestershire, who was accurately quoted by my right hon. Friend the shadow...

Albert Owen | 440 c1623 (Link to this contribution) I shall repeat my belief that collaboration between North Wales and Cheshire is important, and I hop...

Stephen O'Brien | 440 c1623 (Link to this contribution) The Minister for Policing, Security and Community Safety has just opened the new police headquarters...

David Davis | 440 c1597-8 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will not return to a previous incarnation as the shadow of the ...

John Denham | 440 c1598 (Link to this contribution) : May we return briefly to the question of the assessment of police forces, because the right hon. G...

William Cash | 440 c1598-9 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that he is completely right in concentrating on the localisation ...

David Davis | 440 c1598 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes the mistake that his Government make—the idea that one size fits all ...

Emily Thornberry | 440 c1599 (Link to this contribution) : Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

David Davis | 440 c1599 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and he is right to point out that I am right. The point is simple. Some of ...

Lord Harper | 440 c1599 (Link to this contribution) Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary noted, with regard specifically to level 2 criminality, t...

David Davis | 440 c1599 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. If the proposed mergers in the south-east proceed, Kent officers could be closer to Ca...

Stephen O'Brien | 440 c1599 (Link to this contribution) Has my right hon. Friend received any adequate explanation, or indeed any explanation at all, from t...

David Davis | 440 c1599 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The Gloucestershire force is a good example of smaller forces’ coping very ...

David Davis | 440 c1596 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point about the complexity of the problem, and it brings me to my ...

David Davis | 440 c1597 (Link to this contribution) That is a very simplistic point that barely deserves response. Yes, we are committed to elected comm...

Tom Levitt | 440 c1597 (Link to this contribution) I was going to ask the right hon. Gentleman if that was indeed still the Opposition’s policy, as we ...

David Davis | 440 c1596-7 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in one moment. The greatest and most high-profile success in tackling crime in rece...

John Denham | 440 c1596 (Link to this contribution) (Southampton, Itchen) rose—

Speaker | 440 c1597 (Link to this contribution) Order.

Philip Davies | 440 c1597 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful—[Interruption.]

David Davis | 440 c1597 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. As the House will know, the Government want to move in the opposite di...

Philip Davies | 440 c1597 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary, as my right hon. Friend will have heard, said that he was prepared to consider a...

Robert Walter | 440 c1605 (Link to this contribution) On anti-terrorism, one of the best examples is the regular Dorset police operation to police the par...

David Davis | 440 c1605 (Link to this contribution) Of course, SOCA could be used in that way. As has been said many times in this debate, when extra re...

Philip Hollobone | 440 c1606 (Link to this contribution) I very much confirm the figures that my right hon. Friend has just read out. Is he aware that Northa...

David Davis | 440 c1605-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Dorset provides us with a great number of examples, in terms of who the for...

David Davis | 440 c1606 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend demonstrates that there are only two places for the money to come from—a point to whi...

David Davis | 440 c1606-7 (Link to this contribution) That was a quote from the APA, Madam Deputy Speaker, not my words, but if I offended the House I wit...

Crispin Blunt | 440 c1607 (Link to this contribution) In Surrey, central Government support for the police has reduced from 86 per cent. of their budget i...

David Davis | 440 c1607 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point that reinforces my earlier comment that the majority of the money ...

Julian Lewis | 440 c1607-8 (Link to this contribution) In supporting what my right hon. Friend said earlier, may I point out that it has been reported toda...

David Davis | 440 c1603 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman gives an interesting description of his own job and the way in which he fills it—...

David Davis | 440 c1604 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary was asked that question in an intervention, but he dismissed two important assess...

Bob Spink | 440 c1604 (Link to this contribution) Has my right hon. Friend had any indication from the Home Secretary of the impact on the council tax...

David Davis | 440 c1603-4 (Link to this contribution) It is correct that the manifesto said that we would have an elected police commissioner, and there i...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1603 (Link to this contribution) Just to make sure that I heard the right hon. Gentleman correctly during that last exchange, does he...

Mark Francois | 440 c1605 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is, like me, an ex-Territorial Army soldier and will appreciate an analogy with...

David Davis | 440 c1605 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Ministers are obsessed by the idea of scale economies, without realising th...

Lord Bellingham | 440 c1604-5 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend will be aware that after the Tony Martin case there were several cross-border...

David Davis | 440 c1605 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. When the Home Secretary was questioned on that point, he dismissed federati...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1605 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has set out a case for closer co-operation between various forces. Would he...

David Davis | 440 c1601 (Link to this contribution) I will tell him in a few moments what I believe about localism, but I will say that the hon. Gentl...

Ed Balls | 440 c1601 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for confirming that I am one of the people who really care...

David Davis | 440 c1602-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the point exactly. If this reform is not driven by a regional agenda, why would...

Tom Levitt | 440 c1603 (Link to this contribution) Pausing only to note that it was the Conservatives who established the current regional boundaries, ...

David Davis | 440 c1601-2 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friends will forgive me, I would like to make a little progress before taking another bar...

Ian Lucas | 440 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that Denis O’Connor is part of this conspiracy?

David Davis | 440 c1602 (Link to this contribution) What Denis O’Connor has demonstrated is that if the Government ask the question carefully enough, it...

Jeremy Wright | 440 c1602 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is no real reason why Warwickshire police force—my local ...

David Davis | 440 c1600 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. It should be borne in mind that his chief constable is also the representat...

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown | 440 c1600 (Link to this contribution) Is my right hon. Friend aware that our excellent chief constable of Gloucestershire, Dr. Tim Brain, ...

David Davis | 440 c1599-600 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary has not come up with such a proposal. The one thing that he did say earlier, when...

David Davis | 440 c1601 (Link to this contribution) Labour Members basically fall into two groups—the Whips’ narks and the people who really care about ...

David Davis | 440 c1601 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for keeping the hon. Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) waiting...

Emily Thornberry | 440 c1601 (Link to this contribution) It is clear that, in respect of policing, Conservatives believe that small is good and local is best...

Lord Davies of Stamford | 440 c1600 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that as Lincolnshire has a much lower crime rate than the count...

David Davis | 440 c1600-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point about very large police authority areas. The simple truth is that ...

Charles Walker | 440 c1600 (Link to this contribution) Earlier this week Ian Laidlaw-Dickson, the Labour chairman of Hertfordshire police authority, wrote ...

David Davis | 440 c1600 (Link to this contribution) Almost certainly, if the Home Secretary proceeds as he intends. My hon. Friend has raised another po...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1615;440 c1614-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. One difficulty with the Government’s proposal, and with the...

David Leslie Taylor | 440 c1615 (Link to this contribution) I have seen the same figures of a one-off cost of £101 million and a cost of £30 million into the mi...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1616 (Link to this contribution) Sir Ian Blair, the commissioner, does not have any problem travelling around that geographical area....

Stephen O'Brien | 440 c1616 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman therefore agree that any trend that favours regionalisation and organisation...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1615-6 (Link to this contribution) To be honest, it will be of little comfort to local taxpayers to start blaming Governments of the pr...

John Denham | 440 c1616 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman apply that logic to the Metropolitan Police Service, which is far larger th...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1618;440 c1617 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made an excellent point. Having established SOCA, we should use and expand it...

David Heath | 440 c1618;440 c1617-8 (Link to this contribution) Under the Government proposals, the south-west would stretch from the Isles of Scilly to north Glouc...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1616-7 (Link to this contribution) There are many examples in which the forces that would be created are so large that a breakdown of t...

Mark Francois | 440 c1617 (Link to this contribution) The chief constable of Essex, when endorsing the Essex stand-alone option in Chelmsford on Friday, s...

David Howarth | 440 c1615;440 c1614 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a fourth problem, namely that of democratic accountability, especially given the legal ...

Martin Horwood | 440 c1611 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman rightly talks about the importance of leadership in police forces. Is he co...

John Denham | 440 c1611-2 (Link to this contribution) I realise that there is nothing worse than someone like me standing up and saying, ““When I was a Mi...

Paul Flynn | 440 c1612 (Link to this contribution) Has my right hon. Friend noted that the greatest decrease in the problems of drugs in Europe in the ...

John Denham | 440 c1612-3 (Link to this contribution) The Committee has certainly not advocated that since I have been a member of it. I have no expertise...

Chris Huhne | 440 c1613 (Link to this contribution) It seems from doing a few back-of-the-envelope calculations on the Government’s preferred option of ...

John Denham | 440 c1613 (Link to this contribution) We need to move beyond back-of-the-envelope calculations, which are rarely right or helpful. It is i...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1613-4 (Link to this contribution) It is right and proper that we are discussing changes to the police. We should be emphasising—it is ...

Annette Brooke | 440 c1614 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my great lack of confidence, despite the protests of the Home Secretary th...

Mark Oaten | 440 c1614 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. In this rushed process we should not be so blinkered as to ...

John Denham | 440 c1611 (Link to this contribution) I can understand the nervousness and I think that Members have a responsibility not to feed it. I ...

David Leslie Taylor | 440 c1611 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend understand the scepticism of people in Leicestershire about the idea that ...

David Davis | 440 c1610 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting but false point. Does he disagree with the proposition...

John Denham | 440 c1610-1 (Link to this contribution) I will make points about the timing, the consultation and the information that is necessary in just ...

John Denham | 440 c1610 (Link to this contribution) The debate is important, but I found the speech of the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howde...

Tom Levitt | 440 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

David Davis | 440 c1609-10 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I have given up on filling local newspaper pages—least of a...

Lord Beamish | 440 c1609 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman clarify how much his suggestion of having elected regional police comm...

David Davis | 440 c1609 (Link to this contribution) It would add next to nothing to the cost, but add enormously to the effectiveness, as I said earlier...

Lord Beamish | 440 c1609 (Link to this contribution) (North Durham) rose—

David Davis | 440 c1609 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. I can think of many ways of spending £500 million to improve the security o...

David Davis | 440 c1609 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has not had the chance to intervene, so I will give way to him. I am conscious of...

David Davis | 440 c1608 (Link to this contribution) I have given way to the hon. Member for High Peak (Tom Levitt) twice, so I give way to the hon. Memb...

Paddy Tipping | 440 c1608 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has a distinguished record as a former Chairman of the Public Accounts Comm...

David Davis | 440 c1608 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that I served as Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee. No Opposit...

Peter Bottomley | 440 c1608-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) will be able to talk about the ...

David Davis | 440 c1608 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will do that, but I will also encourage forces to try to take a rational approach. What ...

Martin Horwood | 440 c1629-30 (Link to this contribution) Is not the hon. Gentleman alarmed that it says in section 4.12 of the O’Connor report that the numbe...

Pat McFadden | 440 c1630 (Link to this contribution) Again, the chief constable of my local force believes that the BCU structure will be strengthened, n...

James Paice | 440 c1631-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to be called relatively early in the debate, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Inevitably, like many...

Pat McFadden | 440 c1630-1 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the motives of the chief constable to whom I spoke are somewhat higher than the hon. ...

Martin Horwood | 440 c1642-4 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to be taking part in this debate, just as I was pleased to take part in the recent West...

Mark Todd | 440 c1641-2 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. It happens to be based in Ripley, but my hon. Friend makes a powerful point. South Derbyshir...

Martin Horwood | 440 c1644 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman, who would agree with my chief constable, who said that the report c...

Peter Luff | 440 c1644 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr. Paterson) earlier quoted from a report prepared ...

Tom Levitt | 440 c1641 (Link to this contribution) My experience of Derbyshire constabulary is just as positive as my hon. Friend’s, but does he agree ...

Peter Luff | 440 c1649-50 (Link to this contribution) One of the other reasons that the Home Secretary cites for forcing the proposals through at such an ...

Roger Williams | 440 c1644 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good case on behalf of rural areas and police authorities. The Government’s p...

Martin Horwood | 440 c1644-5 (Link to this contribution) Many hon. Members have made the point about the worrying lack of consultation on the proposals and t...

Ashok Kumar | 440 c1645-7 (Link to this contribution) I spoke in the Westminster Hall debate and expressed some of my serious concerns about the reforms t...

Elfyn Llwyd | 440 c1647-9 (Link to this contribution) As I was listening to the Home Secretary open the debate, I was underwhelmed. There is a lack of evi...

Lord Harper | 440 c1637 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may be confused about the motivation. In paragraph 6.8 of the financial section, ““Cl...

Crispin Blunt | 440 c1636-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Given the detail, time is needed for all involved in the debate to establis...

David Gauke | 440 c1636 (Link to this contribution) When we read the various parts of ““Closing The Gap”” that deal with protective services, we see tha...

David Leslie Taylor | 440 c1640 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point about the cost savings that may be available, but such savings...

Mark Todd | 440 c1640-1 (Link to this contribution) I would like to return to that point when I debate costs and savings later in my speech. I am also ...

Crispin Blunt | 440 c1638-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is precisely on the mark. It is important to establish what underlies all these diffe...

Mark Todd | 440 c1639-40 (Link to this contribution) First, I appreciate that there are some powerful arguments in favour of building a critical mass in ...

Crispin Blunt | 440 c1637-8 (Link to this contribution) That would not entirely surprise me. There must be an explanation that makes rather more sense than ...

Philip Dunne | 440 c1638 (Link to this contribution) Will this not become a precursor of, and excuse to introduce, a regional assembly in order to provid...

Anne Snelgrove | 440 c1665-6 (Link to this contribution) We in Swindon do not talk about the Wiltshire police; we talk about the Swindon police. That is beca...

Adrian Bailey | 440 c1668-9 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the report and follow my colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-E...

Mark Francois | 440 c1666-8;440 c1667-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to be called to speak in this debate, partly because I have been helping to co-ordinat...

Adrian Bailey | 440 c1669 (Link to this contribution) I do not have time. I emphasise the fact that we must control costs, because we will be judged on l...

Lord Garnier | 440 c1669 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Laura Moffatt | 440 c1670 (Link to this contribution) I have only a couple of minutes, but I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. ...

Bob Russell | 440 c1669;440 c1669-70 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief because of the time. The hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) mentioned the sup...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 440 c1670;440 c1670-1 (Link to this contribution) I regret the contribution just made by the hon. Member for Crawley (Laura Moffatt), who is complet...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 440 c1670-3;440 c1671-4 (Link to this contribution) I have very little time, so if my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will not give way. We face an absu...

Paul Flynn | 440 c1651-3 (Link to this contribution) Before any reorganisation is authorised by the House, the case should be overwhelming. The last two ...

Elfyn Llwyd | 440 c1650 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Let us remember that, unfortunately, the Met had been tail...

Stephen O'Brien | 440 c1657-8;440 c1657-9 (Link to this contribution) The Government claimed that the O’Connor report forced them to restructure our police forces. They s...

Speaker | 440 c1657 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that there is already a time limit on speeches by Back Benchers in this debate, but if ...

Ian Lucas | 440 c1655-7 (Link to this contribution) I have concerns about the proposals because I am extremely proud of the progress that the Government...

Humfrey Malins | 440 c1653-5 (Link to this contribution) All Governments are, from time to time, guilty of the offence of hurrying to change or to legislate....

David Leslie Taylor | 440 c1662-3 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to contribute briefly to this debate. I am aware that numerous colleagues also want t...

Owen Paterson | 440 c1663-5 (Link to this contribution) I represent North Shropshire and, according to a combination of Her Majesty’s inspectorate of consta...

Alistair Burt | 440 c1660-2 (Link to this contribution) Were an educated but ill-informed Martian to wander into this place and ask why this Government were...

Hazel Blears | 440 c1673-4;440 c1674 (Link to this contribution) May I welcome the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) to his Front-Bench role? I ...

Hazel Blears | 440 c1674-5 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I will not give way, as I have seven minutes to try to deal with 27 contributions...

Bob Russell | 440 c1675 (Link to this contribution) Essex.

Hazel Blears | 440 c1675-6;440 c1675-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is shouting ““Essex”” at me. If he calms down, I will come to him in a moment. A...

David Davis | 440 c1595 (Link to this contribution) I will come to exactly that point and give exactly the answer that the hon. Gentleman wants shortly....

Speaker | 440 c1587 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Gentleman of the maxim in ““Erskine May”” on the use of parliamentary...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1583 (Link to this contribution) I can give my hon. Friend that reassurance. West Yorkshire has been a leading force in developing th...

Speaker | 440 c1606 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to reconsider the words he has just used.

David Davis | 440 c1594 (Link to this contribution) If that proposal is made over the heads of the people of Lincolnshire and without considering the vi...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1590-1 (Link to this contribution) Throughout this process, I and HMIC believe that these changes will provide a better police service....

Charles Clarke | 440 c1581-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a second, but I want to make some more progress. Starting in June 2004, Her Maj...

Stephen O'Brien | 440 c1630 (Link to this contribution) : Would the hon. Gentleman find it more helpful in placing absolute confidence in the impartiality o...

Crispin Blunt | 440 c1636 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody), who chai...

David Davis | 440 c1601 (Link to this contribution) In this particular case, of course, there is no doubt about the classification.

Charles Clarke | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some more progress.

Gwyneth Dunwoody | 440 c1633-6 (Link to this contribution) In a democratic system, policing will always be a delicate task. The essential art is to persuade th...

Tom Levitt | 440 c1659-60 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the fact that we are having a debate on police reform. We cannot divorce the idea of polic...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1591 (Link to this contribution) With respect to my hon. Friend, I do not believe at the end of the day that the issues that are addr...

Speaker | 440 c1589 (Link to this contribution) That is not a point of order for the occupant of the Chair. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman ...

Charles Clarke | 440 c1584-5 (Link to this contribution) I will give way more, but I wish to make some progress first. I have made the central argument for ...

Peter Bone | 440 c1670;440 c1671 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

Subjects

Neighbourhood policing HM Inspectorate of Constabulary Police Police authorities Standards Reform Reorganisation

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk