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Legislative debate on Tuesday, 21 December 2010, in the House of Lords, led by Baroness Neville-Jones.

Identity Documents Bill

Identity Documents Bill. Lords consideration of Commons reason. Motion A agreed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
723 c998-1020, c1029-32 
Session
2010-12
Department
Home Office
Procedure
Commons reasons
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Identity Documents Bill. Commons disagreement and reason.
Wednesday, 15 December 2010
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c1014 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may intervene briefly because I—
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1032 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not accept what the noble Lord has just said. I treat this House with the greatest po...
Show all contributions (106)
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1032 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness may find this disagreeable, but we are fully entitled to ask these ques...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1032 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is not clear to me how much more help I can be to the House. I have tried very hard to ...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1030 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my main intent during the debate has been to fulfil my duty to your Lordships’ House and I...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1030-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we are grateful to the noble Baroness for coming back to the House and to the noble Lord, ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c1031-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I might remind the House that we have in a sense invented procedure this afternoon...
Lord Pannick | 723 c1032 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I shall confine myself to brief questions. First, the Minister ...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1031 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly about two issues. We certainly accept the convention that the noble B...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1017 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to move that the House do adjourn to allow the noble Baroness the Minister to seek ...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1017 (Link to this contribution) After the question has been put, no one can speak.
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1017 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, I give the assurance that we believe this legislation to be compatible with our commi...
Lord Morris of Handsworth | 723 c1016-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can we return to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick? It is a very simple poi...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1016 (Link to this contribution) The ID cards will not have a database behind them. The previous Government decided that the database...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1015-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Government have given it further consideration and decided that they are not going to ...
Lord Berkeley | 723 c1016 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain what would happen if someone used one of these ID cards to go for a short ...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1015 (Link to this contribution) The question has been asked as to whether the Government are ““sheltering behind financial privilege...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1015 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is well understood. The Commons did not consider this matter; it was simply returned ...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c1030 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister is fulfilling a commitment to the House. I think that the noble Lord is now g...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c1020 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the second Motion is that that further consideration of the Commons reason be now adjourne...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c1020 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I understand that there are two Motions, the first of whi...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1030 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I acknowledge that Members of your Lordships’ House sought earlier to determine whether I ...
Baroness Hayman | 723 c1017 (Link to this contribution) It is perfectly in order for the noble Earl to oppose the question after I have put it to the House,...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1017 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly oppose the question that we adjourn this debate. We have had a good and tough d...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c1019 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may be for the convenience of the House if I make a brief business statement at this po...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 723 c1020 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to clarify that on this side of the House we are entirely in agreement with ...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1017 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly oppose the question that the House do now adjourn. We need to determine this ma...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c999 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am in the hands of the House. I want to debate the issue, as this amendment has been ret...
Earl Attlee | 723 c999 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may help the House. We are debating whether we should consider the Commons reaso...
Lord Higgins | 723 c999 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord say which Motion he is debating?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c999 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, shall I carry on? Perhaps we can have a debate on the general issue. I am most grateful to...
Baroness Hayman | 723 c998 (Link to this contribution) There is a Question before the House that the Commons reason be now considered. Afterwards, a Motion...
Lord McNally | 723 c998 (Link to this contribution) I am advised that there is nothing before the House to debate at the moment.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c998 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I must say that I am rather disappointed that the Minister has not sought to give any expl...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, consideration of the Bill during its passage through this House and the other place has re...
Baroness Hayman | 723 c999 (Link to this contribution) I sense that that is the will of the House; so we shall take the procedural Motion now, and I am sur...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c999 (Link to this contribution) Moved by That the House do not insist on its amendment, to which the Commons have disagreed for ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 723 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I have to say that I think it is quite extraordinary that the noble Earl should find it necessary to...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1001 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, long experience shows that the best way of dealing with this type of business is to allow ...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1001-2 (Link to this contribution) That legislation did not put in place a scheme to offer financial support to buy cards at the point ...
Lord McNally | 723 c1001 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as there have been a number of interruptions, and we are perhaps following precedents whic...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1000 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that it would be for the convenience of the House if we allowed the Minister to la...
Lord Maxton | 723 c1000 (Link to this contribution) If no compensation is to be paid, then presumably the card will become the property of the person wh...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) I will respond to the noble Lord’s point. The answer is no. The card does not have value or efficacy...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I apologise to the House for intervening rather too early in proceedings. I have li...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is one more noxious constitutional innovation on the part of the coalition that the Gov...
Baroness O'Cathain | 723 c1004 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have just listened to the most toe-curling self-righteousness from Members of the Oppos...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 723 c1005 (Link to this contribution) If there is a breach of human rights, of course that is a worry, but it is the job of the Court of H...
Lord Pannick | 723 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I will not be accused of being self-righteous if I say that I share the concer...
Baroness O'Cathain | 723 c1004 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not. Please listen to what I have said. The self-righteousness coming from the other side i...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1006 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. Before she sits down—
Baroness Hamwee | 723 c1006 (Link to this contribution) On all previous occasions when we discussed this matter, I was honest with the House that I had some...
Lord Pannick | 723 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) I have, of course, enormous respect for the knowledge and judgment of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell ...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1006 (Link to this contribution) We should listen to the quick intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Howarth.
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 723 c1006 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, made a powerful case on whether or not a right of property h...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Baroness that the constitution issue has to be disentangled from the question...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1007 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that this is about expenditure and not about revenue raising? It is a rele...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) My name was on the amendment and I have listened carefully to what my noble friend the Minister said...
Lord Low of Dalston | 723 c1007 (Link to this contribution) If we cannot contest the issue of financial privilege, why is it being raised at this stage when it ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c1007 (Link to this contribution) My understanding of the conventions is that we have no right to impose expenditure on the Commons an...
Lord Soley | 723 c1008 (Link to this contribution) To follow the noble Lord’s speech is rather pleasant, because he put more passion into it than I cou...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I am obliged to the noble Lord for his intervention—of course, he is right—but I took some comfort o...
Lord Sewel | 723 c1009 (Link to this contribution) I briefly follow my noble friend Lord Howarth on the substantive issue of the Commons reason. This i...
Lord Faulks | 723 c1009 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and other noble Lords speak with great authority on the Huma...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c998 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the Commons reason be now considered.
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I am able to enlighten the House any further on the question of taking legal adv...
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 723 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I have the record of our debate on the previous occasion in Hansard. I asked, and my noble friend Lo...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1011 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think the House knows that it is a strong convention that we do not reveal the source of...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1010 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had another lively debate on this subject. Perhaps I can deal with some of the iss...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm that the law officers have given such advice? She said on Report that she w...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I repeat to the House that the Government believe that this legislation is compatible with the Europ...
Lord Pannick | 723 c1011 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister appreciate that the question is not simply whether or not the Government are satis...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 723 c1009 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the House reaches a judgment on the Commons reason, there ought to be absolute clar...
Lord Maxton | 723 c1009-10 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, although I thought that the actions of the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, and the noble ...
Lord Palmer | 723 c1010 (Link to this contribution) As a compromise to this extraordinarily heated debate, would it not be worth considering that those ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Why is the noble Baroness unable to answer the very relevant question put by my noble friend?
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Is it the case that the noble Baroness does not know whether advice has been sought from the law off...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I really have nothing more that I can say on this subject. Could I go on to the question of financia...
Lord Low of Dalston | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) If it is the case that the Minister cannot confirm whether or not the law officers were consulted, i...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I am neither confirming nor denying; I am simply saying that I cannot take this any further.
Lord Higgins | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) The question is really quite simple. When this was debated last time, we understood that my noble fr...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I think what I said was that I could not confirm that the law officers had been consulted, and I can...
Lord Sewel | 723 c1011 (Link to this contribution) As I understood it, it is quite right and proper that a Minister does not reveal the nature of the a...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Advice is sought on legal points in the normal course of events.
Lord Pannick | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Baroness but she really has not answered the substance of the concer...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I think that it is appropriate for the Minister to carry on with the rest of her speech, answer the ...
Lord Dholakia | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I make a suggestion? Would it not be appropriate for the House to adjourn to enable th...
Earl Attlee | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend has numerous points to answer. Let us hear what she says and whether she c...
Lord Soley | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) That is unacceptable because the noble Baroness gave a commitment to this House, as has been quoted....
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Because I think it is inappropriate to answer it and I cannot take the matter any further. I am very...
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 723 c1012 (Link to this contribution) On the specific point, the noble Baroness said: "““I will seek to do so before Third Reading””." Th...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) This is becoming rather a sterile exchange. I am not able to enlighten the House further.
Lord Howie of Troon | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has become somewhat unsatisfactory. Is it not time to send for the Leader of the Hous...
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1013 (Link to this contribution) This is a matter for the House, but I should like to answer the other points that have been made.
Baroness Neville-Jones | 723 c1015 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am just not in a position to advise what information has been provided by the law office...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Baroness allowing me to respond to the argument of the noble Lord, Lord ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 723 c1014-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does this not go to the heart of parliamentary government as we know it and understand it ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 723 c1014 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am glad to see the Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms in her place. The position is that t...
Lord Waddington | 723 c1014 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am getting rather exasperated by all these exchanges. Surely, if the House is not satisf...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c1014 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is customary, when one Peer in this House asks a question, that permission is granted f...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c1014 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, suggested that we should resolve this matter by a vote. I...
Subjects
Compensation Identity cards
Legislation
Identity Documents Bill 2010-12
Link
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