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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 6 October 2011, in the House of Lords.

Welfare Reform Bill

Welfare Reform Bill. Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to. Grand Committee held in Committee Room 4A.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
730 c349-402GC 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c369-73GC, (corrigendum) 1468 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for his efforts to bring this on and for t...
Lord German | 730 c380-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would support this amendment regardless of whether it was related to a cash change in Go...
Show all contributions (107)
Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c367GC (Link to this contribution) It is not an exempted issue but they do the same thing.
Lord Freud | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) I ask my noble friend to resist pressing me, which I know he enjoys doing, at this moment. Let us wa...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c397GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for those explanations. At some stage may we have a little note which ...
Lord Freud | 730 c396GC (Link to this contribution) As with the current income-related benefits, workers who come into the UK from other European Econom...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) That means that this impact assessment will not be an impact assessment of the effect of these propo...
Lord Freud | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) The impact assessment that I am talking about is the one on universal credit and how it will respond...
Lord Skelmersdale | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does that mean that in this impact assessment, there will be an assumption that the taper ...
Lord Freud | 730 c385-6GC (Link to this contribution) No, we had anticipated that this impact assessment would come out during Committee stage, and I thin...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) I am not going to press my noble friend further, but that is what it means.
Lord Freud | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) Without being overdrawn on the impact—
Lord McAvoy | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister passes on to the next issue—that may have been a Freudian slip—he has charmingly...
Lord Freud | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) I think noble Lords will be somewhat relieved at the approach and will get quite a lot of informatio...
Lord Freud | 730 c390-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, to summarise, the general principle is that a couple should make a joint claim for univers...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c391GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that information. I am going to have to allocate a bit more of the...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c389GC (Link to this contribution) 16: Clause 2, page 2, line 5, leave out subsection (2)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c389-90GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a probing amendment, which would delete subsection (2), which states: "““Regulatio...
Lord Wigley | 730 c386GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister going to respond to the point made by Lord German earlier about the application in W...
Lord Freud | 730 c386GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, without being over-coy on that question, this matter is out for consultation and we expect...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c387-9GC (Link to this contribution) Actually, my Lords, it is oddly enough not about trying to win a vote in the House; that is irreleva...
Lord Colwyn | 730 c389GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, discussions at this end of the Table suggest that it might be convenient to take a short b...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c386-7GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. Before coming back to some of the main themes that your Lordships have adduced, could I thank e...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c387GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with every word my noble friend says about the revelations that have come out in this Commit...
Lord Freud | 730 c395GC (Link to this contribution) There are some very cheap fares now; £12 return on P&O, I think. So maybe even on JSA you can have t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c395GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for each of those additional explanations. I understand the point abou...
Lord Freud | 730 c395-6GC (Link to this contribution) We expect the universal credit to be treated as social assistance, which is within the rules, so we ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c391GC (Link to this contribution) 17: Clause 4, page 2, line 17, leave out ““18”” and insert ““16””
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c391-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to the other amendments in this group. Amendment 17 would make the mini...
Lord McAvoy | 730 c392GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I ask the Minister for some brief clarification. If I am picking it up correctly, the defi...
Lord Freud | 730 c392-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 18 and 19 seek to amend the basic conditions of entitlement to universal credit...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c394-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. As I hope I explained, these were probing amendm...
Lord Freud | 730 c395GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. On the first question about all the rules, our intention, from the policy principle area, is to...
Lord Freud | 730 c400-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments would require a formal consultation on the operation of the claimant comm...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c402GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply, and, through him, I thank his officials for the examples they s...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c397GC (Link to this contribution) 21: Clause 4, page 3, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) Prior to the implementation of regulations made u...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c397-400GC (Link to this contribution) I beg to move Amendment 21, which stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord McKenzie. It re...
Lord Freud | 730 c397GC (Link to this contribution) Having checked with my officials, I am happy to provide a letter summarising the position. I have ha...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c397GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that and for the other explanations we have received. I beg leave to withdraw the ...
Lord Freud | 730 c396GC (Link to this contribution) I am slightly at a loss to respond, mainly because the noble Baroness has opened the door to such an...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c396GC (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister help us a bit further? It might be more helpful to have a letter on this later on...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c396GC (Link to this contribution) If the Committee will excuse me, I have one further point. One of the things that I thought was deep...
Lord De Mauley | 730 c402GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this might be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until 3.30 pm on Monday.
Lord Freud | 730 c384GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for raising this series of amendments. Clearly a point of rea...
Lord Freud | 730 c385GC (Link to this contribution) As I was about to say, we will soon publish an impact assessment on the universal credit that incorp...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 730 c380GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to intervene in what seems to me a very complex and quite difficult discussion,...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c383-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly on this issue in support of the amendment proposed by my noble friend...
Lord Skelmersdale | 730 c383GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have heard an enormous amount of words, some of them very persuasive, for this amendmen...
Lord Colwyn | 730 c376GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder if we could hear from the noble Lord, Lord Newton, who is feeling invisible and h...
Lord Beecham | 730 c377-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lady Hollis and I go back a long way politically in local government terms...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c376-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have said that I will stand up if I can, but it is easier for me to sit down. I wanted e...
Lord Freud | 730 c367GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords. In Northern Ireland they have a system of what they call parity. In practice they pic...
Lord Freud | 730 c367-8GC (Link to this contribution) They do the same thing. It is a different arrangement. I have gone to Northern Ireland particularly ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c368GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there seems to be some encouragement from the other side.
Lord Freud | 730 c366GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will deal with Amendment 3, which is the one noble Lords have concentrated on. Amendment...
Lord Freud | 730 c367GC (Link to this contribution) Currently, my understanding is that there is not a formal duty, but I have a commitment, and I am in...
Lord Wigley | 730 c366GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down—although he perhaps cannot give a reply now—would he consider at some ...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c367GC (Link to this contribution) Having been restrained by my noble friend Lord Kirkwood from what would have been some inflammatory ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c367GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the Minister had intended to finish, but can I back up what my noble friend Lo...
Baroness Meacher | 730 c374-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is difficult to follow the fantastic contributions of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, ...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 730 c375-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis—not perhaps with quite...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 730 c373-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I share the credit for Amendment 13 with my noble friend Lady Meacher. We always expect fo...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c368GC (Link to this contribution) 6: Clause 1, page 1, line 8, leave out ““awarded”” and insert ““paid””
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c368GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord, Lord Newton, had waited a minute, I was going to say there seems to encouragement...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c369GC (Link to this contribution) 12: Clause 1, page 1, line 13, at end insert— ““( ) an amount for council tax,””
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c369GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. I have no particular problem with the ...
Lord Freud | 730 c369GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, regarding the reference to vouchers in paragraph 6 that the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, pic...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c368-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not quite sure what was in the mind of the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, when he drafted...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c361GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister will let us have some information as soon as it is available to him. We are goi...
Lord Freud | 730 c360GC (Link to this contribution) I have no information on any plans in that area at present. This Bill is about conditionality for em...
Lord Freud | 730 c361GC (Link to this contribution) Let me just make it absolutely clear what the Prime Minister was saying in the slightly more technic...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c360GC (Link to this contribution) Might I ask the Minister to use his best endeavours to see that we get that data soon?
Lord Freud | 730 c360GC (Link to this contribution) I can tell noble Lords that, regrettably, at this stage it is very early days. The noble Lord will b...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c360GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can press on one or two other matters. I was interested in the noble Lord’s response about...
Lord Freud | 730 c360GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think the answer to that is no.
Baroness Wilkins | 730 c358GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that some disabled people in work are going to be significant losers as...
Lord Freud | 730 c358-9GC (Link to this contribution) As we restructure the benefits, the out-of-work benefits remain essentially the same. We are making ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c359-60GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that detailed reply. Of course I will be withdrawing the amendment. I thank...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c366GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lord Foulkes for picking up the baton from the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, so...
Lord Wigley | 730 c365-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope I will not distress my noble friend Lord Foulkes unduly by supporting what he said....
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c363-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I added my name to this amendment and intimated to the Clerks and to the previous Chairman...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 730 c363GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having regard to the constructive and comprehensive debate we had in the first session of ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 730 c363GC (Link to this contribution) 3: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, after ““payable”” insert ““after consultation with other United Kingdom...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I think we would all support the concept of a system that was simpler and more readily understood. I...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c361-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would just remark that if that is what the Prime Minister was intending to say, his usua...
Earl of Listowel | 730 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for coming a little late to this debate, but there is an important point on which I woul...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 730 c361GC (Link to this contribution) Was the Prime Minister not speaking in support of the continuation of Remploy?
Lord Freud | 730 c361GC (Link to this contribution) I think we had the discussion about Remploy yesterday, and I will not go on about it again today.
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c353-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak very briefly in support of my noble friend’s amendment for two reasons. Firs...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c349-51GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 2 seeks to attach a clear but succinct purpose to the universal credit; that is,...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c349GC (Link to this contribution) 2: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, after ““credit”” insert ““to support work for those who can and provide...
Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 730 c352-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would also like to support Lord MacKenzie’s amendment and add something to this particul...
Baroness Wilkins | 730 c351-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment, especially to say that it should benefit everybody. The simplific...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c356GC (Link to this contribution) Just as a correction, there is no division on the Opposition Front Bench. That is absurd. This is an...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c356GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall chip in briefly. First, I apologise that I was a little late and did not hear all ...
Lord Wigley | 730 c356GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. That was a point I made on our previous day in Committee: there will be an attack on labour mob...
Lord Freud | 730 c357-8GC (Link to this contribution) ““Soon””, you can measure in weeks; ““very soon””, you can measure in days. Well, let us say that no...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c357GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if ““soon”” is around a week, is ““very soon”” around a day? An hour?
Lord Freud | 730 c356-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 2 would define the purposes of universal credit as, "““to support work for those...
Lord Wigley | 730 c355GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will intervene briefly on this. I support very much the direction we are taking. However...
Lord Beecham | 730 c355GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that one factor that might influence the situation is the question of trav...
Subjects
Council tax benefits Disability Disability living allowance Devolved matters Childcare Council tax Housing benefit Employment Jobseeker's allowance Eligibility Medical examinations Northern Ireland Scotland Social security benefits Wales Voucher schemes Universal credit
Legislation
Welfare Reform Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk