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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 7 December 2011, in the House of Commons.

London Local Authorities Bill [Lords]

London Local Authorities Bill (HL). Report stage debate first day. Some amendments made. Bill to be further considered Tuesday 13 December.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
537 c326-65 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Chris Williamson | 537 c356 (Link to this contribution) I do not have a major problem with that. I think that the circumstances of London are, to be fair, u...
Tom Brake | 537 c356-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak very briefly. First, I declare an interest in that my wife works for a London local ...
Show all contributions (106)
Robert Neill | 537 c357 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful that I have been given the opportunity to sit through this almost unique debate. I hop...
Christopher Chope | 537 c357 (Link to this contribution) It seems that the Government are now saying that they are taking a neutral position. However, on Sec...
Philip Davies | 537 c355-6 (Link to this contribution) I am amazed that the hon. Gentleman thinks that civil liberties are a spurious issue, although that ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c356 (Link to this contribution) To dwell a moment more on the issue of Derby, is the hon. Gentleman content that under the Bill a co...
Robert Neill | 537 c357-8 (Link to this contribution) Because there is comparatively little of what could almost be described as jurisprudence in this reg...
Christopher Chope | 537 c358-9 (Link to this contribution) We have had an excellent debate. I thank all who have participated, including those who have made te...
Philip Davies | 537 c359 (Link to this contribution) Is that not the crux of the matter? It is of no surprise that local authorities are in favour of the...
Christopher Chope | 537 c362-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to speak to this group of amendments. The lead amendment would remove clause ...
Speaker | 537 c362 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to consider amendments 16 to 20, 3 and 4.
Christopher Chope | 537 c359-60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and he made a powerful speech asking why people in Shipley should be dealt ...
Speaker | 537 c362 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House—[Interruption.] I know it is exciting, Mr Percy, being a Teller, but per...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c342-3 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope). He has mad...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c343-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for support from Opposition Members. What we currently have—Westminster city council ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c344-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is what he was trying to do. He wanted him for his dinner. It seems to me that sometime...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c346 (Link to this contribution) That is extremely helpful. Indeed, it is both encouraging and worrying: it is encouraging in one sen...
Mike Freer | 537 c346 (Link to this contribution) Having reflected on the kind offer made by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope), we...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c347 (Link to this contribution) Quite right. How could I fail to agree? I hope that, when my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and...
Christopher Chope | 537 c346-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not in any way churlish about the generosity of my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Gold...
Philip Davies | 537 c338 (Link to this contribution) I totally agree with my hon. Friend. It is not only unreasonable but totally and utterly ridiculous....
Christopher Chope | 537 c337-8 (Link to this contribution) Exactly. To go back to the example given by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob...
Philip Davies | 537 c337 (Link to this contribution) The clause actually refers to somebody who"““intentionally obstructs any authorised officer””." Has...
Mike Freer | 537 c339-40 (Link to this contribution) I have greatly enjoyed this perambulation around local government, with bowler-hatted civil servants...
Christopher Chope | 537 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) That would have been an improvement, but I hope that my hon. Friend will think it better to support ...
David Nuttall | 537 c338 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it might have been better if the clause, rather than using the word “...
Christopher Chope | 537 c338 (Link to this contribution) I can think of all sorts of reasons, but I do not necessarily want to share them with the House in r...
Philip Davies | 537 c341 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly puzzled about the corporate causes of litter. Is my hon. Friend insinuating that if so...
Mike Freer | 537 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my hon. Friend's intervention and I guessed that was where we would part company. ...
Philip Davies | 537 c340 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right—I do take a zero-tolerance approach to antisocial behaviour and t...
Chris Williamson | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) I very much concur with the contribution made by the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mik...
Philip Davies | 537 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I was describing people who would simply pretend that they had not received the notice because there...
Chris Williamson | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that that might be part of the explanation. I regret that some of the clauses were removed...
Christopher Chope | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know that since the Bill was debated on Second Reading, the Opposed Bill Com...
Christopher Chope | 537 c352-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful case against clause 8(3) and (4). Does he accept that one proble...
Philip Davies | 537 c352 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes a fair point, but of course the big difference between th...
Chris Williamson | 537 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) It is not absurd. It is the hon. Gentleman who has been making a number of absurd criticisms. The po...
Philip Davies | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems to be advocating a curious line of argument. Is he really suggesting that i...
Chris Williamson | 537 c355 (Link to this contribution) If I might say so, the hon. Gentleman seems to be overstating the civil liberties argument. In my vi...
Christopher Chope | 537 c355 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that on issues as fundamental as civil liberties we should have n...
Philip Davies | 537 c348-50 (Link to this contribution) It is always a trial to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c348 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, as always, absolutely spot on, and I should advise anybody in the Chamber today o...
Christopher Chope | 537 c348 (Link to this contribution) What my hon. Friend says is reinforced by the fact that almost everybody who goes to a parking tribu...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c347-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman suggests that I look like one. If I look like one, there is not a lot of hope for...
Mike Freer | 537 c352 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give my hon. Friend a particular number, but I can try to help him on the issue of postage....
Philip Davies | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clearing that up, because I had a great deal of concern about wh...
Mike Freer | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to reconfirm that I have accepted amendments 35 to 39.
Christopher Chope | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we will have the opportunity to test the opinion of the House on amendment 9, because mo...
Philip Davies | 537 c336 (Link to this contribution) May I tap into my hon. Friend's legal expertise, because his amendment could well be very helpful to...
Christopher Chope | 537 c336-7 (Link to this contribution) Again, I do not purport to be an expert on this Bill, and my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c337 (Link to this contribution) Adding up all these fines, there seems to be £1,000 under clause 18 and another £1,000 under clause ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c337 (Link to this contribution) That might be the situation. They seem just to have gone for level 3 fines, which are a maximum of £...
David Nuttall | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) On amendment 10, is there not a danger that there would be an expectation, in these straitened times...
Christopher Chope | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point, because most borough councils are saying that they are short of funds an...
Christopher Chope | 537 c336 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 14 is, again, a consequential amendment relating to the need to remove references to an ““...
Philip Davies | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend any idea how often these provisions would be enforced, if his amendments were not...
Christopher Chope | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) Again, that is a very important point. On a Bill such as this, we do not need to have any cost-benef...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c329 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way again. Perhaps he could answer two questions. First, ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c329 (Link to this contribution) The answer to my hon. Friend's second question is yes. As for what uniform would be appropriate, I t...
Christopher Chope | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point that the sponsor of the Bill may wish to address later.
Philip Davies | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend—I take his point and I support his amendment—but there is one...
Christopher Chope | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) I hope neither, but my hon. Friend is right that as sure as night follows day, what follows from thi...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to keep on interrupting my hon. Friend, but his speech is so compelling and raises so man...
Christopher Chope | 537 c329 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his sedentary intervention, because it has given me an opportuni...
Christopher Chope | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) At present, a council officer has no more power than any other individual. Let me cite a constituenc...
Philip Davies | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend explain how this will work in practice? If someone who is asked for his name and...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (...
Mark Field | 537 c330-1 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise extensively with what my hon. Friend says about the civil liberties issues, but on this...
Christopher Chope | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is on to a really important point: if we are to change the balance between officialdo...
Philip Davies | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) If a constituent of mine, confident that they did not have to give their name and address to a local...
Christopher Chope | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend cites another good example. Again, the conscientious law-abiding citizen could find h...
David Nuttall | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a compelling speech, but could he deal with a point that we have not yet to...
Christopher Chope | 537 c331-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, but this opens up a much larger debate that we will not go into now—the...
Philip Davies | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark Field) is right:...
Christopher Chope | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) Again, my hon. Friend is spot on. I am not sure whether the promoters have thought about that. It se...
Greg Knight | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) Is the following statement an accurate précis of the situation: my hon. Friend's amendments are an a...
Christopher Chope | 537 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) Yes. Over time, offences have been decriminalised, and when I was a Transport Minister I supported t...
Greg Knight | 537 c333 (Link to this contribution) Is there any popular support for this measure? A number of colleagues representing London constituen...
Christopher Chope | 537 c333 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a good point. It certainly appears that the public's representatives are ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is doing a great job in defending his local authorities, and I hope that as a result ...
Mark Field | 537 c333 (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with the view that certain parts of the country should not have an entirely dif...
Christopher Chope | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to advertise, but I agree that readers of tourist guides such as those produced by Lon...
Greg Knight | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) As ignorance of the law is not a defence, if these amendments are not accepted by the Bill's promote...
Christopher Chope | 537 c334-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree, which is why I have tabled amendment 9 seeking to leave out clause 4 entirely. I have provi...
Philip Davies | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) In respect of this group of amendments, instead of simply restricting the provision so it applies to...
Speaker | 537 c326 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendments 6, 8, 7, 9 to 14, 21 and 35 to 39.
Christopher Chope | 537 c328 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has made a powerful point. There is evidence that local authorities have given ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that that would be the consequence and that it indicates t...
Christopher Chope | 537 c326 (Link to this contribution) This Bill has been before the House for four years. Earlier this year, it went through an opposed Bi...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) Is it really the case that the Bill as drafted means that these officers could go around willy-nilly...
Christopher Chope | 537 c328 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good question, but it is probable that only the promoters of the Bill can answer it d...
Greg Knight | 537 c328 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way to me again. He is being very generous. We all know ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) If a body corporate were liable for the penalty charge, it could be served on its director. My right...
David Nuttall | 537 c327-8 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend explain who accredits those persons? How do they become accredited?
Chris Williamson | 537 c356 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is putting words into my mouth. I did not say that civil liberties were a ““spuri...
Philip Davies | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I said earlier that this would be a red letter day for him, as so m...
Mark Field | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) Although I very much understand the concern raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr N...
Christopher Chope | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend almost answered his own point in his preamble, when he said that this was a civil lib...
Greg Knight | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) I hope my hon. Friend will forgive me for saying this, but could it not be argued that his amendment...
Mike Freer | 537 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) That is the very point. There are two issues. McDonald's is a fine organisation based in my constitu...
Subjects
Fixed penalties Greater London Local government Police Litter Powers
Legislation
London Local Authorities Bill (HL) 2007-08 to 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk