Adjournment debate and Debate on select committee report on Thursday, 1 May 2014, in the House of Commons, led by David TC Davies. The answering member was Steve Webb.

Housing Benefit (Wales)

Eighteenth debate (part one) on the second report from the Welsh Affairs Committee, The impact of changes to housing benefit in Wales, and the Government response.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 579 cc319-354WH
Session: 2013-14
Department: Department for Work and Pensions; Welsh Affairs Committee
Chamber / Committee: Westminster Hall
Related items: The impact of changes to housing benefit in Wales. Welsh Affairs Committee second report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Tuesday, 8 October 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; The impact of changes to housing benefit in Wales: Government response to the second report of the Committee, session 2013-14. Welsh Affairs Select Committee fourth special report.
Thursday, 16 January 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions: David TC Davies | 579 c319WH (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. We have worked together in another ...; Chris Ruane | 579 c319WH (Link to this contribution)
It hurts.; David TC Davies | 579 c319WH (Link to this contribution)
It does hurt. However, I think the Select Committee worked well. The issue was potentially contro...; Geraint Davies | 579 c319WH (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman accept that 70% of the growth in housing benefit costs, which have double...; David TC Davies | 579 cc319-320WH (Link to this contribution)
I am trying to stick to the facts as I saw them on the Select Committee. To be fair, the first fa...; Chris Ruane | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Huw Irranca-Davies | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
rose—; David TC Davies | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
I give way first to the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane).; Chris Ruane | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
The national figure, as I understand it, is that only 6% of people have moved out of their proper...; David TC Davies | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
Right. Did the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) want to intervene?; Huw Irranca-Davies | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
Lord Freud kindly appeared recently at a meeting of the all-party parliamentary group on housing....; Roger Gale | 579 c320WH (Link to this contribution)
Order. The hon. Gentleman was invited to intervene, but that was a lengthy intervention. Please k...; David TC Davies | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
My Latin is not quite as good as my Welsh, but if the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that the impac...; Chris Ruane | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
Across the UK.; David TC Davies | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
I had better not get into a conversation across the room about it, but that figure would certainl...; Geraint Davies | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
The numbers are that some 40,000 people are affected in Wales, against about 400 units that can t...; David TC Davies | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
I do not accept that it is an attack on the poor.; Chris Ruane | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
They would.; David TC Davies | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
I think a lot of people who would consider themselves poor pay taxes and would rather resent the ...; Guto Bebb | 579 c321WH (Link to this contribution)
Is it not also the case that we heard evidence as a Committee that the housing market is dynamic ...; David TC Davies | 579 c322WH (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has made the point that I was about to come to. That supposition was put to us, ve...; Albert Owen | 579 c322WH (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman and the Welsh Affairs Committee on this detailed report on an i...; David TC Davies | 579 c322WH (Link to this contribution)
I am certainly not suggesting that we suspend the bedroom tax—or spare room subsidy, or under-occ...; Madeleine Moon | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
I suggest to the Chair of the Select Committee that the Minister should also look at what happene...; David TC Davies | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
I am sure it could not have been that much of a disaster.; Madeleine Moon | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
It was.; David TC Davies | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
Well, the hon. Lady had 13 years, from 1997 onwards, to put things right.; Madeleine Moon | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
It was repealed.; David TC Davies | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
In actual fact, in 2008, further changes were made to how housing benefit was paid that kept in p...; Madeleine Moon | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
I am talking about direct payment—; Roger Gale | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
Order.; Geraint Davies | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; David TC Davies | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
Yes, but one of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues made the point earlier that everyone wanted to sp...; Geraint Davies | 579 c323WH (Link to this contribution)
The point is consistently made, “Well, Labour did it in the private sector so why can’t we do it ...; David TC Davies | 579 cc323-4WH (Link to this contribution)
I am not sure that I would accept that argument, but I am grateful that, in signing the report, t...; 579 c324WH (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Roger Gale | 579 c324WH (Link to this contribution)
Order. Hon. Members will notice that a significant number of Members wish to speak. Two debates a...; Nia Griffith | 579 cc324-5WH (Link to this contribution)
Housing benefit is an important issue for people in Wales. Forty-six per cent. of tenants in soci...; Mark Williams | 579 c325WH (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady will be aware that large tracts of Wales are very rural. She referred to distances,...; Nia Griffith | 579 c325WH (Link to this contribution)
Absolutely. It is a considerable problem.
The Government state in their response that they ...; Steve Webb | 579 c325WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady say how she would define what “significantly adapted” is in practice?; Nia Griffith | 579 cc325-6WH (Link to this contribution)
I am sure we can all imagine major adaptations such as changes to bathrooms and additional rooms....; Guto Bebb | 579 c326WH (Link to this contribution)
I am interested in the hon. Lady’s comments about Torfaen, but she could mention the situation in...; Nia Griffith | 579 cc326-7WH (Link to this contribution)
There may be differences in different areas because of the availability of different types of pro...; Mark Williams | 579 cc327-8WH (Link to this contribution)
It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Sir Roger. Given the interest ...; Nia Griffith | 579 c328WH (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman find in his area, as in mine, that pensioners are queuing up to have smal...; Mark Williams | 579 c328WH (Link to this contribution)
We could well have attended the same surgeries. It is certainly my experience that I have had peo...; Chris Ruane | 579 c328WH (Link to this contribution)
I was born on a council estate and lived on one for 27 years. There, the council built new single...; Mark Williams | 579 cc329-330WH (Link to this contribution)
I agree. The key point, as the hon. Gentleman said, is that the housing is in those communities. ...; Chris Ruane | 579 c330WH (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman has catalogued many of the defects of the legislation. In retrospect, does he ...; Mark Williams | 579 cc330-1WH (Link to this contribution)
I did not vote for the legislation at the time. I am a very modest person, as friends will testif...; Sian C James | 579 c331WH (Link to this contribution)
Thank you, Sir Roger, for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I will be concentrating on the ...; Guto Bebb | 579 c331WH (Link to this contribution)
Those concerns were also highlighted in north Wales before the changes to the spare room subsidy ...; Sian C James | 579 cc332-3WH (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He is very fortunate, because that is not the pa...; Geraint Davies | 579 c333WH (Link to this contribution)
My understanding of the overall figures—I do not know whether the Minister is interested in this—...; Sian C James | 579 c333WH (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend and colleague in the city and county of Swansea for that contribution. We ...; Roger Gale | 579 c334WH (Link to this contribution)
Order. Several members of the Welsh Affairs Committee and one patient Privy Counsellor are still ...; Glyn Davies | 579 c334WH (Link to this contribution)
I intend to make a fairly short contribution. I want to speak not only from the perspective of th...; Jonathan Edwards | 579 c334WH (Link to this contribution)
Is that not the crux of the matter? There is a huge contradiction: on the one hand, the policy is...; Glyn Davies | 579 c335WH (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly fair point, and I do not think that the policy can be freest...; Guto Bebb | 579 c335WH (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend that the difference between the private and social sectors should be ...; Glyn Davies | 579 c335WH (Link to this contribution)
I think that it is. It might not be the same in all local authorities—I can speak only for my own...; Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 579 c335WH (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is a world of difference between local authorities in W...; Glyn Davies | 579 c336WH (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point in that there are great differences between constitue...; Nia Griffith | 579 c336WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Glyn Davies | 579 c336WH (Link to this contribution)
I will in a second—let me just finish the point, because I am getting warmed up. They put on all ...; Nia Griffith | 579 c336WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman explain how, with his Government cutting capital expenditure funding to t...; Glyn Davies | 579 c336WH (Link to this contribution)
Again, we have a complete separation, as if the private sector is over here and the public sector...; Guto Bebb | 579 c337WH (Link to this contribution)
On that point, it is important to state that the provision of social housing in Wales fell dramat...; Glyn Davies | 579 c337WH (Link to this contribution)
I have nothing more to do, Sir Roger, other than to thank you.
2.38 pm; Jonathan Edwards | 579 cc337-8WH (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, as it is to speak in this debate. I...; Geraint Davies | 579 c338WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that bank lending to businesses is 30% down since 2008 but th...; Jonathan Edwards | 579 c338WH (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. We were promised a rebalancing of ...; Glyn Davies | 579 c338WH (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to intervene, and I ask this question with some degree of uncertainty, but I am pretty...; Jonathan Edwards | 579 cc338-9WH (Link to this contribution)
I did not read that report, but it makes a point about the unbalanced nature of economic growth a...; Guto Bebb | 579 c339WH (Link to this contribution)
I do think that rent caps are a socialist trap. The fact that they are supported by the Committee...; Jonathan Edwards | 579 c339WH (Link to this contribution)
The point I am trying to make is that if the Government are serious about bringing down the housi...; Guto Bebb | 579 c339WH (Link to this contribution)
I think it has already been accepted in this debate that there is a link between private sector p...; Jonathan Edwards | 579 cc339-340WH (Link to this contribution)
My point is that the OBR’s figures indicate that the Government will not achieve their objectives...; Jessica Morden | 579 cc340-3WH (Link to this contribution)
I agree with other Committee members, who were kind of schmoozing the hon. Member for Monmouth (D...; Clive Betts | 579 c343WH (Link to this contribution)
Order. We are constrained for time. We need to get to the end of this debate by 3.30 pm and four ...; David TC Davies | 579 c343WH (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Betts. Other Members have told me that they would be quite relaxed if the...; Clive Betts | 579 c343WH (Link to this contribution)
That is helpful. If that is the general feeling of the Select Committee, I am more than happy to ...; Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 579 cc343-4WH (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate the Chair of the Select Committee on his Committee’s work. I thought that the impa...; Madeleine Moon | 579 cc344-5WH (Link to this contribution)
I must apologise, Mr Betts, that because of the late running of the debate, I will not be able to...; Geraint Davies | 579 cc345-7WH (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), the Select Committee Chair, and I feel...; Huw Irranca-Davies | 579 cc346-8WH (Link to this contribution)
It is great to serve under your stewardship this afternoon, Mr Betts. I commend the way that the ...; Clive Betts | 579 c348WH (Link to this contribution)
We move on to the Front-Bench spokesmen, who have 10 minutes each.
3.20 pm; Stephen Timms | 579 cc348-350WH (Link to this contribution)
I am also delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I congratulate the Welsh Affairs ...; Steve Webb | 579 cc350-1WH (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I join in the congratulations to the...; Huw Irranca-Davies | 579 c351WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?; Steve Webb | 579 c351WH (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not give way, because I have a whole lot of questions which have already been asked th...; Nia Griffith | 579 c352WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?; Steve Webb | 579 c352WH (Link to this contribution)
No. For example, when the Labour Government introduced the principle that private sector tenants ...; Nick Smith | 579 c352WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?; Steve Webb | 579 cc352-3WH (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not, because I have two hours of questions to answer, and I want to answer them.; Nick Smith | 579 c353WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?; Steve Webb | 579 c353WH (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not. Labour cannot explain why it is right to say that private tenants have to pay for...; Stephen Timms | 579 c353WH (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?; Steve Webb | 579 cc353-4WH (Link to this contribution)
No—I have only one and a quarter minutes left. Why did we not hear about the 13,000 people in Wal...; Clive Betts | 579 c354WH (Link to this contribution)
I will ask the Chairman of the Select Committee to respond briefly to this debate and then to int...; David TC Davies | 579 c354WH (Link to this contribution)
May I say how impressed I was by that speech from the Liberal Democrat Minister? It was enough to...
Subjects: Disability Housing benefit Payments Private rented housing Reform Wales Social rented housing Housing occupancy Universal credit
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Housing Benefit (Wales)

Secondary information

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