Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Tuesday, 8 March 2016, in the House of Lords.

Housing and Planning Bill

Lords committee stage fourth day. Amendments discussed. Clauses 8 to 11 agreed. New clause (Lords amendment 54A) debated and withdrawn. Part 1 of 2.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 769 cc1164-1234
Session: 2015-16
Department: Department for Communities and Local Government
Legislative stage: Committee stage
Procedure: New clauses
Chamber / Committee: House of Lords chamber
Related items: Housing and Planning Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons
Wednesday, 13 January 2016
Bills
House of Lords; Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee twentieth report.
Wednesday, 3 February 2016
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2016-0330
Monday, 4 April 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2016-0380
Tuesday, 19 April 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions: Lord Beecham | 769 c1164 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Beecham
54: Clause 8, page 5, line 29, at end insert “, and without unr...; Lord Beecham | 769 cc1164-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we begin further deliberation on this important Bill with what your Lordships will be p...; Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 cc1165-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment and I hope that I will not disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Beec...; Lord O'Shaughnessy | 769 cc1166-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, for moving this amendment—not, unfortuna...; Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 769 cc1168-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I want to associate myself with the comments just made and those of others who have spo...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 cc1169-1171 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we have debated with some intensity in Committee so far the need to build more homes, c...; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1171 (Link to this contribution)
Will the noble Viscount say a little more about the point on planning delay made by the noble Lor...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1171 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, makes a good point. I stress that powers to speed up planning are i...; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1171 (Link to this contribution)
On that point, I am a member of a planning committee. Most of the planning matters go through und...; Lord O'Shaughnessy | 769 c1171 (Link to this contribution)
I knew that I would run into trouble when I mentioned planning and local authorities, given how m...; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1171 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord for that. I can see that we are not going to agree on this because I just ...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, to complete this short debate, I repeat that the issue of planning will come up later o...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have participated in this debate. I am glad that t...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the important points raised by the noble Lord about skills and I will certainly take...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, that being the case I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.; Baroness Parminter | 769 c1173 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Baroness Parminter
54A: After Clause 11, insert the following new Clause—; Baroness Parminter | 769 cc1173-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Government’s attempt to solve the current housing crisis needs, at the same time, t...; Lord Krebs | 769 cc1174-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment. I put my name to it because I believe that, as the noble Baron...; Baroness Young of Old Scone | 769 cc1176-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am very pleased to join the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, and the noble Lord, Lord ...; Lord Foster of Bath | 769 cc1177-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in supporting my noble friend Lady Parminter’s amendment, I echo the words of both the ...; Baroness Whitaker | 769 cc1178-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. When the Select Committee, of which I was also a member,...; Baroness Maddock | 769 c1179 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, during the previous Parliament, we discussed this policy in some detail in other Bills....; Lord Cameron of Dillington | 769 c1179 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I had not really intended to intervene in this debate because better, more knowledgeabl...; Lord Stunell | 769 cc1179-1181 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment. I do so as somebody who in the other place proposed the Sustai...; Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1181 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I had not intended to speak in this debate at all until I heard what I can only describ...; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1182 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendment 54A, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, has our full support. As no...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 cc1182-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, first, I applaud the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, for braving the Chamber today with...; Lord Foster of Bath | 769 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords—; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 cc1183-4 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may make some progress. We all recognise the need to build more homes, and they should ...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
Can the noble Lord comment on that question? The noble Lord who spoke before indicated that the c...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, I was just coming to that point. The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, raised the issue of costs. Re...; Lord Stunell | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister reaffirm that his brief tells him that the additional cost would be £3,000 per ...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
That is the figure I have mentioned and I am very happy to reaffirm that. However, in the same br...; Lord Krebs | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister confirm that his brief contains a full cost-benefit analysis of these additional...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
This is definitely getting into a technical area, and I am happy to write to the noble Lord with ...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
May I ask a non-technical question—I am about as technical as the Minister—if £3,000 is an excess...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
I reiterate the figure that we have. I am very happy to write to the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, an...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
It is not about how the Government reached that figure but what, in their eyes, would be an accep...; Baroness Young of Old Scone | 769 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
I wonder whether the Minister might clear up a confusion that is arising in my mind. It strikes m...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
It does depend on where in the country we are talking about. Prices, as we know, can go up or dow...; Lord Foster of Bath | 769 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the Minister for that. He is absolutely right to point out that any governm...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1185 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister replies to that, perhaps I may follow up the point made by my noble friend La...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
I listened carefully to the evidence produced by the noble Lord, Lord Foster. Of course, I am ver...; Lord Stunell | 769 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister does so, could he tell us what evidence he has taken on the connection betwee...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
The evidence is pretty strong from the Federation of Master Builders, but in the same letter that...; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister suggested to my noble friend Lady Hollis that people would not be able to pass on th...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, it is at build cost rather than purchasing cost.; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
I assume that the builder would pass that on when they sold their houses and make sure that it wa...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
The point is that the onus of the £3,000 is on the housebuilding sector.; Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, the properties are bought at the end of the day; that is what they are built for. That...; Lord Porter of Spalding | 769 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, can I declare all of my interests, although we might be here forever? I am chairman of ...; Viscount Younger of Leckie | 769 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I had concluded my speech, but my noble friend made an interesting and useful intervent...; Baroness Parminter | 769 cc1187-8 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his comments and I will be understandably brief, but I was very disappoi...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1188 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Beecham
55: Clause 62, page 28, line 8, at end insert “with the exclusi...; Lord Beecham | 769 cc1188-1193 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Committee will now deploy its energies to the part of the Bill that deals with the ...; Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 cc1193-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 56 and 57A. In doing so, I add my support to the other amen...; Lord Cameron of Dillington | 769 cc1194-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 57B, tabled in my name, and also Amendment 57D, where I am an...; Bishop of St Albans | 769 cc1196-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support Amendment 56, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, to which I have adde...; Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 cc1197-1200 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I draw the House’s attention to my interests as a vice-president of the LGA and a counc...; Baroness Redfern | 769 cc1200-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the amendments reflect an effort to address concerns about adequate housing provision, ...; Lord Best | 769 cc1202-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are now deep into the debate on the implementation of the voluntary right to buy for...; Lord Horam | 769 cc1205-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is very good to hear from the victor of 1983, if I may call the noble Lord that. It ...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1206 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps the noble Lord would take it from me that it is not housing associations that I do not tr...; Lord Horam | 769 c1206 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry but from the noble Lord’s remarks I felt that he showed a lack of trust in the motivat...; Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1206 (Link to this contribution)
Is the noble Lord then suggesting that a housing association would have the right to say, “You ca...; Lord Horam | 769 cc1206-7 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, the right to buy is at the behest of the housing association. It can decide whether a hou...; Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 c1207 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the situation has got a lot better but the figures I have are from 2013 and 2014, ...; Lord Horam | 769 c1207 (Link to this contribution)
With respect, financing is a different issue, which we are not discussing on these amendments.; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1207 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I challenge the noble Lord on that. Clause 62 stand part is grouped with this, and that...; Lord Horam | 769 c1207 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, but that is a stand part debate; we are talking about amendments here. None the less, fundam...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1207 (Link to this contribution)
Given that the debate on whether Clause 62 should stand part is, by consent, grouped with this gr...; Lord Horam | 769 cc1207-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the noble Baroness will raise the issue if she wishes to. I will certainly not sto...; Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 769 cc1208-1211 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I draw noble Lords’ attention to my list of interests but I declare a couple in particu...; Lord Kerslake | 769 cc1211-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare my interest as president of the Local Government Association and chair of Pea...; Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 c1212 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, on a point of clarification, the noble Lord said that Peabody, rightly and understandab...; Lord Kerslake | 769 c1212 (Link to this contribution)
As has been said by a number of people, there are real issues about what we mean by a portable di...; Lord Young of Cookham | 769 c1213 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall make a brief contribution to what I suspect is the most controversial part of a...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1213 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord said that the Government would give the grant. Would it not be more accurate to sa...; Lord Young of Cookham | 769 cc1213-4 (Link to this contribution)
The Government give the grant, but—I think this is the point the noble Baroness is making—they ge...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1214 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord perhaps anticipates my intervention. If it is seen fit to include some categories,...; Lord Young of Cookham | 769 c1214 (Link to this contribution)
Because the housing associations have total discretion to include any category they wish, but the...; Lord Kerslake | 769 c1214 (Link to this contribution)
The point I was making was that the wider the choice of opportunities to buy you give tenants of ...; Lord Young of Cookham | 769 cc1214-5 (Link to this contribution)
Whichever route one goes down, whether the discount is available in the open market or restricted...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1215 (Link to this contribution)
It is the continuity of the Administration that bothers me.; Lord Young of Cookham | 769 c1215 (Link to this contribution)
I remember similar predictions being made back in 1979, when we introduced the right to buy for l...; Duke of Somerset | 769 cc1215-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the general thrust of all this group of amendments, but in particular Amendme...; Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 769 cc1216-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I would quite like to take up the challenge to the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, as som...; Lord Berkeley | 769 cc1217-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have listened very carefully to all the arguments concerning the possible disposal of...; Lord Porter of Spalding | 769 cc1218-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps the Committee will indulge me for a few minutes. I benefited from the right to ...; Lord Tope | 769 cc1219-1220 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we have been going for nearly two hours so I will resist the temptation to reply to the...; Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 cc1220-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, perhaps I may add just marginally to the Minister’s burden in that regard. I want to pi...; Lord Best | 769 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps the noble Lord will give way on that point. I think it is fair to say that the National H...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Best, will forgive me, I am not sure that that is correct. The ...; Baroness Grender | 769 cc1221-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will be extremely brief. I am trying to raise, by way of my probing Amendment 60A, th...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 cc1222-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak to this group, which includes the clause stand part debate. Last Thursday ...; Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 769 c1223 (Link to this contribution)
I want to be absolutely clear on this point: the National Housing Federation has never supported ...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has made precisely my point: the housing associations have looked after themselves...; Lord Shipley | 769 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I do not envy the Minister in having to reply to this debate, in one sense, but it has ...; Lord Beecham | 769 c1225 (Link to this contribution)
Does the noble Lord suggest that this should be like-for-like replacement?; Lord Shipley | 769 cc1225-6 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord takes the words out of my mouth, because my second safeguard is that there should ...; Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1226 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been an extensive debate and I hope that I can answer all the questions asked ...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1226 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords—; Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1226 (Link to this contribution)
If the noble Baroness does not mind, I will not give way. I would like to make progress and perha...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1226 (Link to this contribution)
This is a large group and we shall have trouble tracking all the questions that noble Lords want ...; Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc1227-9 (Link to this contribution)
That is why I want to make progress. If the noble Baroness will pick me up on her question at the...; Lord Taylor of Goss Moor | 769 c1229 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister reflect further with her colleagues on the contradiction in what she has just s...; Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc1230-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, maybe I did not articulate it properly. The engagement between housing associations and...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1231 (Link to this contribution)
It would perhaps have been more appropriate if the Minister could have taken the query at the tim...; Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1232 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I did not cover high-value assets and the noble Baroness’s point because it has been an...; Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1232 (Link to this contribution)
But they were raised tonight. I think we have a right to hear what the Minister says so that when...; Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1232 (Link to this contribution)
I repeat that we will have full opportunity to discuss those points in future groups of amendment...; Lord Beecham | 769 cc1232-4 (Link to this contribution)
In that same spirit, perhaps the Minister will confirm that we will have the information on start...
Subjects: Housing Planning
Legislation: Housing and Planning Bill 2015-16
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Housing and Planning Bill

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