Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Tuesday, 28 June 2016, in the House of Lords, led by Baroness Neville-Rolfe.

Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill [HL]

Lords committee stage first day. Clauses 1 to 33 agreed to. Schedules 1 to 4 agreed to. Bill reported without amendment.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 773 cc1475-1542
Session: 2016-17
Department: Department for Culture, Media and Sport
Legislative stage: Committee stage
Procedure: New clauses
Chamber / Committee: House of Lords chamber
Related items: Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill (HL) 2016-17
Thursday, 19 May 2016
Bills
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2016-0617
Tuesday, 5 July 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions: Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1475 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
1: Clause 2, page 1, line 18, at end insert “and...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1475-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it may be helpful and to the advantage of the Committee if I explained a couple of poin...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1477 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I regret that I was unable to participate at Second Reading—the aeroplane I was in did ...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 cc1477-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I too am sympathetic to the aims of Amendment 1, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenso...; Lord Inglewood | 773 c1478 (Link to this contribution)
On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Howarth—and I also apologise for not having been able t...; Lord Redesdale | 773 c1478 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this issue was raised on Second Reading and, although the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, was...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1478-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his welcome for the Bill, and for his const...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1479-1480 (Link to this contribution)
I thank all noble Lords for contributing to this short debate. I take the points, which were well...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 c1480 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
The Earl of Clancarty
2A: Clause 3, page 2, line 7, after “a” insert “seriou...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 c1480 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his support for this amendment and Roger O’...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1480-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I rise briefly to support the amendment proposed by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. He ...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1481 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, for his amendments and the noble Lord, Lord Ste...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 c1481 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, again for his contribution and the Minister for...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1481 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
3: Clause 4, page 2, line 42, leave out paragrap...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1481 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the two amendments in this group are in the same vein as the one we have just discussed...; Baroness Berridge | 773 c1482 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I raised this matter at Second Reading. The issue of inchoate offences is very importan...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1482-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in addressing these two amendments I hope to satisfy noble Lords, but if I do not we sh...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that response and for the offer to write to us with more detail. I hope ...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, I should have said that I will ensure that we look very carefully at my noble friend’s...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
Obviously, I should just keep sitting down and the noble Baroness will give us more and more. A d...; Lord Touhig | 773 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Touhig
5: Clause 5, page 4, line 27, at end insert—
“( ) The Secr...; Lord Touhig | 773 cc1484-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendments 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Stevenson of Ba...; Baroness Northover | 773 cc1485-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, am sorry that I could not be here for Second Reading. I was in Angola, itself a...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1486 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I would like to follow up the important points raised by my noble friend Lord Touhig an...; Baroness Berridge | 773 c1486 (Link to this contribution)
On that discrete point, again, the resources that were available to the Metropolitan Police unit ...; Lord Redesdale | 773 c1487 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, while I almost support the theory behind these amendments, we might have difficulty wit...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1487-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak briefly to the Clause 6 stand part debate, which is included in this group...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1488-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for tabling these important amendments and to the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, for h...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1489 (Link to this contribution)
What is the position of British service personnel embedded in the armed services of another count...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1489-1490 (Link to this contribution)
If the noble Lord will bear with me for a minute, I will see whether we can clarify that. In the ...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1490 (Link to this contribution)
Is the Minister able to assist the Committee with any observations about the resources that will ...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1490-1 (Link to this contribution)
We have made this a priority. I was going to say that my noble friend Lady Berridge made a good p...; Baroness Northover | 773 c1491 (Link to this contribution)
Is the Minister able to give any kind of answer to the noble Lord, Lord Howarth? He asked a very ...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1491 (Link to this contribution)
May I add a gloss to the intervention that I made? We really have to think about a situation in w...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1491 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord for pressing the point. I hope it will help if I say that British forces w...; Lord Touhig | 773 c1491 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who took part in this very short debate. The noble Baroness, La...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1491 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord for giving way. I think I acknowledged that I had not managed to answer hi...; Lord Touhig | 773 cc1491-2 (Link to this contribution)
What I was basically going to say is that I am sure the Minister will want to share her letters w...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1492 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
10: Clause 7, page 4, line 38, at end insert—; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1492 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are back in Scotland. In several parts of the Bill we find very detailed requirement...; Lord Hope of Craighead | 773 c1492 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak briefly to Amendment 10 which, with great respect, is based on a misunders...; Lord Skelmersdale | 773 c1493 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, before the noble and learned Lord spoke I was about to say that I find this a very odd ...; Lord Hope of Craighead | 773 c1493 (Link to this contribution)
It is standard practice not to mention this Scottish system of prosecution. It is necessary in En...; Earl of Courtown | 773 cc1493-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate, particularly the nobl...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1494 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to my kinsman, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, for reminding me that I ...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1494 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
11: After Clause 7, insert the following new Cla...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1494-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the situation that we are dealing with in this Bill is obviously extremely grave and ve...; Lord Renfrew of Kaimsthorn | 773 cc1495-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this amendment has a great deal to commend it. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has i...; Baroness Berridge | 773 c1496 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as I understand the situation in relation to the matters, for instance, with Daesh, the...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 cc1496-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I would like to support what has already been said by my noble friend Lord Stevenson, t...; Lord Redesdale | 773 c1497 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, while I support the idea of changing international law, we have waited 60 years for thi...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1497-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful for this interesting debate and for the amendments that have been laid. I...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1499 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry that the Minister did not feel more enthused by the opportunity to do at least somethi...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1499 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
12: Clause 8, page 5, line 5, at end insert—
...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1500 (Link to this contribution)
I might need to ask for a short break shortly to get my papers in order. This amendment is the pr...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1500-1 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord for his comments. It is indeed delightful and unusual to have a cultural e...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1501 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I fully understand the Minister’s desire that the Government should not be bound by an ...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1501 (Link to this contribution)
It would not be appropriate or helpful to publish criteria for the reasons I have already stated....; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1501 (Link to this contribution)
I will be very happy to pay for the cup of tea. Will the Minister also undertake to write to Memb...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1502 (Link to this contribution)
I will be happy to write to Members of the Committee setting out, first, what we have already sai...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1502 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was going to end with the point made by my noble friend Lord Howarth. This issue need...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1502 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
15: Clause 14, page 7, line 8, at end insert—; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1502 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we now move away from emblematic conventions to the realpolitik of this, which is deali...; Baroness Berridge | 773 c1503 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this also brings into view an issue raised at Second Reading. Many of these articles, w...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1503 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Baroness has raised a very important point about the resourcing of what I thi...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1503-5 (Link to this contribution)
There are a number of amendments here and I will try to deal with them in turn and answer the que...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1505 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for that very full response although I do not think that all the qu...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1505 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, this is difficult for the institutions but there has been a reasonable settlement for ...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1506 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, my Lords, but the truth is that all these institutions suffered at least a 30% reduction und...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1506 (Link to this contribution)
As the noble Lord knows, I am always happy to have cups of tea with him and they are usually extr...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1506 (Link to this contribution)
I am a little worried that we are turning into the Tea Party movement here.; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1506 (Link to this contribution)
We live in cultural times. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.; Earl of Kinnoull | 773 c1506 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
The Earl of Kinnoull
16: Clause 16, page 8, line 8, at end insert—
“(7...; Earl of Kinnoull | 773 cc1506-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in moving Amendment 16 I will also speak very briefly to Amendment 30A. I thank the Min...; Lord Redesdale | 773 c1508 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, while I quite understand the good intention in questioning this provision, I have some ...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1508 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am very sympathetic to the objectives of the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. He raises an ...; Lord Inglewood | 773 c1509 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I should have mentioned earlier that I am president of the British Art Market Federatio...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 c1509 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, am sympathetic to the concerns of the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, but can we com...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1509 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am looking forward to the Minister’s response to the main amendment in this group but...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1509-1511 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, for raising this issue and giving rise to th...; Earl of Kinnoull | 773 c1510 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister, as ever. When turning up to meetings with her, it is alw...; Lord Collins of Highbury | 773 c1510 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Collins of Highbury
17: Clause 17, page 8, line 42, at end insert—
<...; Lord Collins of Highbury | 773 c1512 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this follows on aptly from previous debate. The purpose of the amendment is to provoke ...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 cc1512-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 18 in this group, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale...; Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury | 773 c1514 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support not only the amendment but all the words of the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 cc1514-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, the noble ...; Lord Inglewood | 773 cc1515-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in her response to my intervention on the previous amendment the Minister responded to ...; Baroness Northover | 773 cc1517-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment in the names of the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and my noble fr...; Lord Renfrew of Kaimsthorn | 773 cc1518-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I warmly support the amendment in the names of the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and his ...; Lord Redesdale | 773 cc1519-1520 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I rise to speak to this amendment and to say that I do not plan to move Amendment 29 be...; Lord Inglewood | 773 c1520 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I would like to intervene to respond to remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale,...; Lord Flight | 773 c1520 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am curious to know what the minimum value envisaged is in the amendment from the nobl...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1520-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I would like to start by addressing Amendment 18. I thank the noble Earl, Lord Clancart...; Lord Renfrew of Kaimsthorn | 773 c1523 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister sits down, will she clarify just one point? She made a very interesting remar...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1524 (Link to this contribution)
I think the noble Lord is right; it is a bit of a puzzle. Of course, Lord Elgin and co were from ...; Lord Collins of Highbury | 773 c1524 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this has been an incredibly positive debate. At the beginning, I said the purpose of my...; Lord Rosser | 773 c1525 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Rosser
20: After Clause 18, insert the following new Clause—
“Uni...; Lord Rosser | 773 cc1525-6 (Link to this contribution)
The Bill, as we know, seeks to introduce the necessary domestic legislation to enable us to ratif...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 cc1526-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Rosser has made some very important points about the Border Force ...; Earl of Kinnoull | 773 c1527 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, support the thinking behind Amendments 20, 26 and 27, particularly in respect o...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 cc1527-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support Amendment 20 in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Stevenson,...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1528-1530 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for his amendment. It is evident that many Members ...; Lord Rosser | 773 cc1529-1531 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that response. Certainly I shall wish to read carefully the full respons...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1531 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
25: Clause 23, page 11, line 2, at end insert—; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1531-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, although it is not grouped technically, perhaps I may take the Clause 28 stand part pro...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1532-3 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord for the opportunity to discuss and make clear to the Chamber the concerns ...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1533 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness for that reply and I think that the Committee will be reassured by wha...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1533 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to do that. The noble Lord will know that we brought the Bill forward on the day of th...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1533 (Link to this contribution)
It would not be out of place to say that I am sure the Minister would not dare go against the nob...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1533-4 (Link to this contribution)
We have sought a debate on whether Clause 26 should stand part, not for any reason to do with the...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1534 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for his questions. Clause 26 is necessary to cover a situation wh...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1535 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
28: After Clause 28, insert the following new Cl...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1535 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the obligations placed on Her Majesty’s Government as a result of ratifying this treaty...; Earl of Clancarty | 773 c1535 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support Amendment 28 in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord Collins...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1536 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the obligation on states party to the convention to safeguard their own cultural proper...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1536 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her response. I think that covers most of the issues I have raised, and ...; Lord Collins of Highbury | 773 c1537 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Collins of Highbury
30: Before Clause 29, insert the following new Clau...; Lord Collins of Highbury | 773 c1537 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are taking an opportunity here. The Minister will doubtless say that it is not neces...; Baroness Northover | 773 cc1537-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, noble Lords from these Benches mentioned at Second Reading that we welcomed the introdu...; Lord Howarth of Newport | 773 c1538 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support my noble friend’s proposal that there should be a requirement for the Secreta...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 cc1538-9 (Link to this contribution)
Noble Lords have rightly emphasised today that we need to be transparent and open about the cultu...; Lord Collins of Highbury | 773 c1539 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness for that response. I did not realise that the hour was so late, but ne...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1540 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
31: Clause 32, page 15, line 16, at end insert—<...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 cc1540-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the Minister will not mind debating my favourite topic, which I know she shares. I...; Baroness Northover | 773 c1541 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I rise simply to express the hope that the Bill speeds through rapidly, whatever else i...; Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 773 c1541 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I feel very well scrutinised today. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for her...; Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 773 c1541 (Link to this contribution)
Well, follow that. I think these aspirations are shared on all sides of the Committee and I am pr...
Subjects: Armed conflict Cultural heritage Protection Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict
Legislation: Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill (HL) 2016-17
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on hansard.parliament.uk

Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill [HL]

Secondary information

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