moved Amendment No. 70: 70: Clause 12, page 7, line 13, leave out subsection (8) On Question, amendment agreed to.

moved Amendment No. 70: 70: Clause 12, page 7, line 13, leave out subsection (8) On Question, amendment agreed to.

My Lords, I am grateful for the support for the amendment. To answer the specific questions, the government amendment covers both greenhouse gases that are included in our targets and gases that are not included. For the greenhouse gases that are included in the targets, Clause 20 sets out a...

My Lords, I am grateful for the support for the amendment. To answer the specific questions, the government amendment covers both greenhouse gases that are included in our targets and gases that are not included. For the greenhouse gases that are included in the targets, Clause 20 sets out a...

My Lords, we on these Benches also welcome the amendment in general terms, and I would make many similar comments to those of the noble Lord, Lord Taylor—although I will not repeat them—about choosing the baseline year and keeping it in an international context. We would like to see more...

My Lords, we on these Benches also welcome the amendment in general terms, and I would make many similar comments to those of the noble Lord, Lord Taylor—although I will not repeat them—about choosing the baseline year and keeping it in an international context. We would like to see more...

My Lords, it is hard to explain. I am isolating a group of Members of this House who seem to be flagging up what people outside have erected as the central areas for consideration in the debate, but which in my view are not the central areas. The argument about...

My Lords, it is hard to explain. I am isolating a group of Members of this House who seem to be flagging up what people outside have erected as the central areas for consideration in the debate, but which in my view are not the central areas. The argument about...

My Lords, I believe that the Liberal Democrats have made the error of pursuing the agenda that was put to them by environmental groups outside, in particular Friends of the Earth, by concentrating on the targets that the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, expressed some concern about before, when he talked...

My Lords, I believe that the Liberal Democrats have made the error of pursuing the agenda that was put to them by environmental groups outside, in particular Friends of the Earth, by concentrating on the targets that the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, expressed some concern about before, when he talked...

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. This amendment is somewhat illusory. We cannot possibly resolve this issue on our own, nor can Europe. Europe can certainly take ameliorative action, and is doing so, with the support of most of the European airlines and of the unions, particularly...

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. This amendment is somewhat illusory. We cannot possibly resolve this issue on our own, nor can Europe. Europe can certainly take ameliorative action, and is doing so, with the support of most of the European airlines and of the unions, particularly...

My Lords, the amendment is not about the future of aviation, but whether an attempt should be made in the next three or four years before the EU Emissions Trading Scheme includes aviation to measure and take account of the emissions from aviation caused by or belonging to this country....

My Lords, the amendment is not about the future of aviation, but whether an attempt should be made in the next three or four years before the EU Emissions Trading Scheme includes aviation to measure and take account of the emissions from aviation caused by or belonging to this country....

My Lords, I hesitate to intervene, but we need to think carefully about what the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said, in part because this is a deeply emotional subject, which is wrapped up with the intense debate about the possible expansion of Heathrow. The complaint of the noble Lord, Lord...

My Lords, I hesitate to intervene, but we need to think carefully about what the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said, in part because this is a deeply emotional subject, which is wrapped up with the intense debate about the possible expansion of Heathrow. The complaint of the noble Lord, Lord...

My Lords, Australia has changed dramatically in the past few days, with the election of the new Labor Government, and all three major candidates in the American presidential election, McCain, Clinton and Obama, support international action. Why should we do anything that jeopardises the favourable movement that has already occurred?

My Lords, Australia has changed dramatically in the past few days, with the election of the new Labor Government, and all three major candidates in the American presidential election, McCain, Clinton and Obama, support international action. Why should we do anything that jeopardises the favourable movement that has already occurred?

My Lords, like the noble Lord, I welcome the change in attitude of the Australian Government. I welcome also the commitments of the various American presidential candidates to move towards emission control systems. However, including aviation emissions in the Bill from day one would in no way prejudice that. Perhaps...

My Lords, like the noble Lord, I welcome the change in attitude of the Australian Government. I welcome also the commitments of the various American presidential candidates to move towards emission control systems. However, including aviation emissions in the Bill from day one would in no way prejudice that. Perhaps...

I think the answer to the noble Lord is yes. I saw the report of the work to which he has referred a couple of weeks ago. I think in Committee I gave some information about shipping which made it almost impossible for us to do the measurements at present....

I think the answer to the noble Lord is yes. I saw the report of the work to which he has referred a couple of weeks ago. I think in Committee I gave some information about shipping which made it almost impossible for us to do the measurements at present....

My Lords, the reason we focused both in the Joint Committee and here today on aviation rather than on shipping is twofold: it is partly because shipping is much more complicated for attribution than the already complicated aviation sector, and partly, and largely implicitly, because aviation was thought to be...

My Lords, the reason we focused both in the Joint Committee and here today on aviation rather than on shipping is twofold: it is partly because shipping is much more complicated for attribution than the already complicated aviation sector, and partly, and largely implicitly, because aviation was thought to be...

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, because I wanted to respond to that point. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, will appreciate that when my noble friend Lord Teverson and I sat on the Joint Committee on the Draft Climate Change Bill and heard all...

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, because I wanted to respond to that point. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, will appreciate that when my noble friend Lord Teverson and I sat on the Joint Committee on the Draft Climate Change Bill and heard all...

My Lords, the distinction between the position taken by the noble Baroness and myself and, perhaps, my noble friends, is that when decisions are taken on these issues, I believe that they should come out in the words and phrases used by the scientists, not the politicians. In 20 years’...

My Lords, the distinction between the position taken by the noble Baroness and myself and, perhaps, my noble friends, is that when decisions are taken on these issues, I believe that they should come out in the words and phrases used by the scientists, not the politicians. In 20 years’...

My Lords, there is only one acid test as to whether or not the amendment is appropriate: is it going to make international aviation accountable? Will it make the EU Emissions Trading Scheme happen quicker, or will it make it more complicated to achieve? I do not think that anyone...

My Lords, there is only one acid test as to whether or not the amendment is appropriate: is it going to make international aviation accountable? Will it make the EU Emissions Trading Scheme happen quicker, or will it make it more complicated to achieve? I do not think that anyone...

My Lords, is the noble Lord saying that we should not debate this in Parliament or raise these issues but that we should leave them to a committee and just take on board its views? Surely the purpose of this debate is to question that. I do not want to...

My Lords, is the noble Lord saying that we should not debate this in Parliament or raise these issues but that we should leave them to a committee and just take on board its views? Surely the purpose of this debate is to question that. I do not want to...

My Lords, it is not that the issues should not be debated; of course they should be debated. But we saw the other day that the noble Lord’s Benches are prepared to divide on these issues, which means that they do not only want the debate, they want enshrined in...

My Lords, it is not that the issues should not be debated; of course they should be debated. But we saw the other day that the noble Lord’s Benches are prepared to divide on these issues, which means that they do not only want the debate, they want enshrined in...

My Lords, the arguments against inclusion seem to confuse two completely different issues. The first is whether aviation and shipping should be included in the carbon account. The second is whether we are ready to include aviation and shipping in a system of penalties and incentives such as the ETS....

My Lords, the arguments against inclusion seem to confuse two completely different issues. The first is whether aviation and shipping should be included in the carbon account. The second is whether we are ready to include aviation and shipping in a system of penalties and incentives such as the ETS....

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for moving the amendment. As I am following on from my noble friend Lord Selborne, in some ways there is little more to add. I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Greenway. We have had many debates in...

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for moving the amendment. As I am following on from my noble friend Lord Selborne, in some ways there is little more to add. I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Greenway. We have had many debates in...

My Lords, the question is whether the amendments make it harder to negotiate the international agreements that we all recognise will be needed, whether for aviation, shipping or, indeed, the international movement of goods and passengers. I rather like the amendment because it sets a realistic timescale—the Secretary of State...

My Lords, the question is whether the amendments make it harder to negotiate the international agreements that we all recognise will be needed, whether for aviation, shipping or, indeed, the international movement of goods and passengers. I rather like the amendment because it sets a realistic timescale—the Secretary of State...