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Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill 2024-26

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Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill 2024-26 (125)

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Lords report stage. Amendment 1 agreed to on division (187 to 132). Amendment 2 agreed to on division (142 to 128). Amendment 5 disagreed to on division (95 to 138). Amendment 13 disagreed to on division (69 to 124). Amendment 15 agreed to. Bill, as amended, ordered to be printed...

Lead member
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill
Answering member
Lord Moylan
Department
Department for Transport
Type
Debates on bills
Notes
Scottish legislative consent granted and Welsh legislative consent sought.
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1504-1562
House
House of Lords

Moved by

Lord Gascoigne

1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—

“Purpose: improvement of passenger railway services

(1) The purpose of this Act is to improve the performance of passenger railway services in the United Kingdom.

(2) The Secretary of State must, in taking any actions under the provisions of this Act, have...

Member
Lord Gascoigne (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1505
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I rise briefly to fire the starting gun on Report with my Amendment 1. In doing so, I express my gratitude to my noble friend Lord Moylan for his support with this amendment. I also thank the Minister for taking the time to meet me the other day....

Member
Lord Gascoigne (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1505-7
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I support my noble friend on his Amendment 1 and will speak to Amendment 14 in my name. My noble friend very kindly referred to our debate on the same amendment in Committee. I note the reference in the Railways Act 1993 and that I see two merits...

Member
Lord Lansley (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1506-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak briefly to my Amendment 16, which is in this group. I am, as ever, grateful to my noble friend for sparing the time to talk about this. My amendment is designed to be helpful. It is designed from experience of previous railway legislation, in which...

Member
Lord Berkeley (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1508
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak briefly on some of the themes that my noble friend Lord Gascoigne has been pursuing around reporting on performance. The Government seem to be a little reticent about being willing to accept amendments which increase reporting requirements. However, there is an important issue here: will...

Member
Lord Grayling (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1508-9
House
House of Lords

My Lords, Amendment 1 is impossible to disagree with. It is fundamental to the survival of our railways that things improve. They have reached crisis point because of decades of under- investment, poor management and poor political decision- making. However, the presence of this reminder might be useful for the...

Member
Baroness Randerson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1509
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we have had lengthy discussion on this Bill in Committee, and it is not my intention today to repeat unnecessarily the arguments and the evidence adduced during those debates. The longer that we went on in Committee, the clearer it became that this is a very bad Bill...

Member
Lord Moylan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1509-1511
House
House of Lords

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Gascoigne and Lord Moylan, for Amendment 1. I absolutely support the idea that the Government should be clear about what the railway is for and what we want it to achieve. Far too many conversations in this industry are about tracks, signals and trains...

Member
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1511-2
House
House of Lords

Are not the staff of Waterloo station already employed by Network Rail?

12.45 pm

Member
Lord Moylan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1512
House
House of Lords

I was referring to the people who drive and operate the trains. There are more of them on Waterloo station than there are employees of Network Rail.

To finish what I was saying, most people on the railway refer to their employer and their work as “the railway”, which tells you...

Member
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1512-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his response, to all those who spoke in this relatively short debate, and to those who supported my Amendment 1. I am pleased to see that the Government Chief Whip is on the Front Bench, and I am conscious that many...

Member
Lord Gascoigne (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1513
House
House of Lords

Moved by

Lord Moylan

2: Clause 1, page 1, line 12, at end insert—

“25B Termination of existing franchise agreements

(1) The Secretary of State must terminate franchise agreements for default in accordance with the terms of the agreement as soon as it is possible to do so.

(2) The Secretary of State must assess...

Member
Lord Moylan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1514
House
House of Lords

My Lords, in the course of debate at Second Reading and in Committee, numerous noble Lords drew attention to the fact that the manner in which the Government are approaching the termination of franchises is going to result in some very perverse outcomes. Admittedly, most of the franchises still in...

Member
Lord Moylan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1514-7
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 2, and to Amendment 10 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Scott. Amendment 2 was the Liberal Democrats’ Amendment 1 in Committee, requiring the Secretary of State to terminate franchises for default and to nationalise the worst-performing operators first,...

Member
Baroness Randerson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1517-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, from listening to the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I think there is a misunderstanding about what the Government are trying to do. As I understand it as a humble Back-Bencher, we are trying to get rid of the franchising system because, as it is, it does not help...

Member
Lord Liddle (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1518
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am glad I let the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, speak before me, because I listened very carefully to what he said at Second Reading, when he made a powerful speech in favour of pragmatism. I think that was an expression that he used; I see him nodding...

Member
Lord Young of Cookham (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1518
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I expressed some sympathy with this amendment, or an amendment similar to it, in Committee. Without repeating anything

I said in Committee, I put it to my noble friend the Minister again—having said one thing, I now contradict myself—that it does not really make any sense to terminate...

Member
Lord Snape (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1518-9
House
House of Lords

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Randerson and Lady Scott of Needham Market, for their amendments in this group—Amendment 2 and Amendment 10 respectively. The amendments seek to test the Government’s approach of transferring services as existing contracts expire. I also thank my noble...

Member
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 cc1519-1520
House
House of Lords

Before the Minister sits down, can he just clarify something that he said? Is it the case that under new Section 30A inserted by Clause 2(3) he has the flexibility already to renew two of the franchises mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Snape, by using that particular paragraph in...

Member
Lord Young of Cookham (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
6 November 2024
Reference
840 c1520
House
House of Lords