This is a question that troubled me for many years in my very humble position as a recorder. Is my noble friend saying that they are going to give up trying to test the guilt of a man who has lost his reason by assessing what a man would do...

This is a question that troubled me for many years in my very humble position as a recorder. Is my noble friend saying that they are going to give up trying to test the guilt of a man who has lost his reason by assessing what a man would do...

My Lords, my noble friend has asked the one question I was going to ask: why? What is the justification, and what is wrong with the present system?

My Lords, my noble friend has asked the one question I was going to ask: why? What is the justification, and what is wrong with the present system?

My Lords, what is really worrying me is that there is a convention on Report that one does not go in for a long histoire of matters that have already been debated. I have tried to be brief. I shall not take any more time, but I do not think...

My Lords, what is really worrying me is that there is a convention on Report that one does not go in for a long histoire of matters that have already been debated. I have tried to be brief. I shall not take any more time, but I do not think...

My Lords, this is for clarification. That affects the constitutional position, I think. Does the noble and learned Lord draw any distinction between an order given on the field of action in armed combat and an order not given in those circumstances?

My Lords, this is for clarification. That affects the constitutional position, I think. Does the noble and learned Lord draw any distinction between an order given on the field of action in armed combat and an order not given in those circumstances?

My Lords, I oppose Amendment No. 18. We have heard another passionate and lengthy recital, as happened on Clauses 3 and 8. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, knows perfectly well that he has done little but repeat what was said then. He also knows that the noble and gallant Lord,...

My Lords, I oppose Amendment No. 18. We have heard another passionate and lengthy recital, as happened on Clauses 3 and 8. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, knows perfectly well that he has done little but repeat what was said then. He also knows that the noble and gallant Lord,...

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. That is no mere trite acknowledgement; very valuable contributions have been made, including that of the noble Lord, Lord Drayson. But it is very difficult to know quite how to approach what has been said. The fundamental...

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. That is no mere trite acknowledgement; very valuable contributions have been made, including that of the noble Lord, Lord Drayson. But it is very difficult to know quite how to approach what has been said. The fundamental...

My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment No. 32, by leave, withdrawn.

My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment No. 32, by leave, withdrawn.

moved AmendmentNo. 32: After Clause 49, insert the following new clause- Compliance with orders and rules of engagement (1) A serviceman participating in armed combat or peacekeeping who has opened fire may not be convicted of murder, manslaughter or breach of international convention unless the intention not to comply with...

moved AmendmentNo. 32: After Clause 49, insert the following new clause- Compliance with orders and rules of engagement (1) A serviceman participating in armed combat or peacekeeping who has opened fire may not be convicted of murder, manslaughter or breach of international convention unless the intention not to comply with...

My name is on Amendment No. 61, and I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Kingsland for his exposition of the importance of the principle at stake. I support the spirit of all these amendments. Why? Amendment No. 61— exclusively relating to written rules of engagement, albeit established by...

My name is on Amendment No. 61, and I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Kingsland for his exposition of the importance of the principle at stake. I support the spirit of all these amendments. Why? Amendment No. 61— exclusively relating to written rules of engagement, albeit established by...

The Minister was referring to a military law separate and distinct from the civil system. That was spoken to by noble and gallant Lords at Second Reading and lies, as the noble Lord has said, behind the basis of much of this Bill. I shall say no more now, because...

The Minister was referring to a military law separate and distinct from the civil system. That was spoken to by noble and gallant Lords at Second Reading and lies, as the noble Lord has said, behind the basis of much of this Bill. I shall say no more now, because...

I thank the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General for his assurance. He is right—it gives me the essence of what I am asking. I hope it alleviates the concern of the noble Lords. I dissociate myself from the extension of the undertaking sought by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas...

I thank the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General for his assurance. He is right—it gives me the essence of what I am asking. I hope it alleviates the concern of the noble Lords. I dissociate myself from the extension of the undertaking sought by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas...

moved AmendmentNo. 91: Before Clause 118, insert the following new clause- ““MODE OF TRIAL (1) The Attorney General may apply to the High Court for a trial in a civilian court of a person subject to service law on a charge of- (a) murder, (b) manslaughter, (c) an offence under...

moved AmendmentNo. 91: Before Clause 118, insert the following new clause- ““MODE OF TRIAL (1) The Attorney General may apply to the High Court for a trial in a civilian court of a person subject to service law on a charge of- (a) murder, (b) manslaughter, (c) an offence under...

Will the framework safeguard honest mistake? This is a relevant consideration in liability for murder or anything else.

Will the framework safeguard honest mistake? This is a relevant consideration in liability for murder or anything else.

Perhaps I may intervene because I am involved in this. First, my noble friend Lord Kingsland got it totally wrong. He knows why I think he is wrong and I shall tell the Committee in a moment. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, has got it totally right. It...

Perhaps I may intervene because I am involved in this. First, my noble friend Lord Kingsland got it totally wrong. He knows why I think he is wrong and I shall tell the Committee in a moment. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, has got it totally right. It...

We are getting ahead of ourselves. My noble friend Lord Attlee is dealing with Amendment No. 131. I shall not speak to it now, but I oppose it outright. In the context of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford—as we are going ahead a bit—if...

We are getting ahead of ourselves. My noble friend Lord Attlee is dealing with Amendment No. 131. I shall not speak to it now, but I oppose it outright. In the context of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford—as we are going ahead a bit—if...

I ask the noble Lord whether he would care to take into account that in Clause 140 ““14 days”” is in effect covered by subsection (2)(b), which is consistent with the way that the High Court, or any other court, manages its affairs. It is not a cut-off date.

I ask the noble Lord whether he would care to take into account that in Clause 140 ““14 days”” is in effect covered by subsection (2)(b), which is consistent with the way that the High Court, or any other court, manages its affairs. It is not a cut-off date.

I apologise for intervening, but we are coming to a crucial point. Does the noble Lord accept that, at times in action, it is virtually impossible to distinguish between rules of engagement and orders, and that you have to rely on a presumption of compliance, throwing the burden on the...

I apologise for intervening, but we are coming to a crucial point. Does the noble Lord accept that, at times in action, it is virtually impossible to distinguish between rules of engagement and orders, and that you have to rely on a presumption of compliance, throwing the burden on the...

The suggestion is that ““disrespectful”” must be defined. How on earth do you define it other than as ““want of respect””? I do not see where we are going with this. Perhaps the Minister could deal with it.

The suggestion is that ““disrespectful”” must be defined. How on earth do you define it other than as ““want of respect””? I do not see where we are going with this. Perhaps the Minister could deal with it.