I am not saying that all deals are shoddy, but this particular deal was one that excluded us and, as has been explained, was a method of getting a Bill through the House that did not go far enough from our point of view. We have been consistent in our...

I am not saying that all deals are shoddy, but this particular deal was one that excluded us and, as has been explained, was a method of getting a Bill through the House that did not go far enough from our point of view. We have been consistent in our...

That was a fascinating defence, but I am not sure that I was convinced by it. The essence of the argument seems to be that there is a link between the bishops' professional discipline and their place in the Lords, so I suppose that that does provide a difference between...

That was a fascinating defence, but I am not sure that I was convinced by it. The essence of the argument seems to be that there is a link between the bishops' professional discipline and their place in the Lords, so I suppose that that does provide a difference between...

To deal with the final point made by the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg), I should like to seek the opportunity to press amendment 94 to the vote, if the occasion so arises. I also gratefully adopt his arguments for that amendment. I...

To deal with the final point made by the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg), I should like to seek the opportunity to press amendment 94 to the vote, if the occasion so arises. I also gratefully adopt his arguments for that amendment. I...

That "immediately" was said in 1911. The hon. Gentleman says that they did not mean it. The Liberals did mean it then, although there might well have been an internal compromise within the parliamentary party not to attempt to go further and to put that promise into the Act.

That "immediately" was said in 1911. The hon. Gentleman says that they did not mean it. The Liberals did mean it then, although there might well have been an internal compromise within the parliamentary party not to attempt to go further and to put that promise into the Act.

I suspect that the factions on women having the vote and on going further on House of Lords reform might well have been the same; the Cabinet was also split on that. I listened to the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and the Secretary of State, and...

I suspect that the factions on women having the vote and on going further on House of Lords reform might well have been the same; the Cabinet was also split on that. I listened to the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and the Secretary of State, and...

We were happy to take part in those discussions, but we were frustrated all the way through that one discussion had to lead to another discussion and then to another discussion. The Liberal Democrats have been clear about our policy since 1911, and the fact that everybody else seems to...

We were happy to take part in those discussions, but we were frustrated all the way through that one discussion had to lead to another discussion and then to another discussion. The Liberal Democrats have been clear about our policy since 1911, and the fact that everybody else seems to...

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is right that there is that difference of opinion, but it seems to me that we have never got to that important part of the debate. However, we are not talking about that issue, but about the abolition of by-elections for the hereditary peers....

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is right that there is that difference of opinion, but it seems to me that we have never got to that important part of the debate. However, we are not talking about that issue, but about the abolition of by-elections for the hereditary peers....

The trouble with that argument is that it assumes that economic management is a matter of legislation; I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, above all others, does not agree with that. Economic management is a matter of Government policy away from the legislative process. Constitutional reform is a separate...

The trouble with that argument is that it assumes that economic management is a matter of legislation; I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, above all others, does not agree with that. Economic management is a matter of Government policy away from the legislative process. Constitutional reform is a separate...

I accept that point, but there is a logical connection between our position on this issue and our position on disestablishment. That is not part of this Bill—more is the pity, although perhaps it covers enough issues already. In any case, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment....

I accept that point, but there is a logical connection between our position on this issue and our position on disestablishment. That is not part of this Bill—more is the pity, although perhaps it covers enough issues already. In any case, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment....

Brussels.

Brussels.

That, of course, is another reason why the House of Lords is a splendid place, and its virtues should be preserved in any reform. For all those reasons, I urge the Government to re-adopt this policy. I shall be fascinated to hear whether they have indeed done a U-turn on...

That, of course, is another reason why the House of Lords is a splendid place, and its virtues should be preserved in any reform. For all those reasons, I urge the Government to re-adopt this policy. I shall be fascinated to hear whether they have indeed done a U-turn on...

Well, "young" is a relative term. The average age in the House of Lords is 68. We do not want the House of Lords to be full of people who have an eye to a future political career at very high level. It is a virtue of the present House...

Well, "young" is a relative term. The average age in the House of Lords is 68. We do not want the House of Lords to be full of people who have an eye to a future political career at very high level. It is a virtue of the present House...

I beg to move amendment 26, page 17, line 36, leave out subsection (2). The amendment is about bishops and archbishops. The effect of clause 34 is to exempt the archbishops and bishops who sit in the other place from the disciplinary provisions that we have just agreed. I am...

I beg to move amendment 26, page 17, line 36, leave out subsection (2). The amendment is about bishops and archbishops. The effect of clause 34 is to exempt the archbishops and bishops who sit in the other place from the disciplinary provisions that we have just agreed. I am...

No, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, because I want the Minister to have time to reply. If bishops do not want to be part of politics, that would be fine. My party has supported disestablishment for a long time, and we think that it would be better for...

No, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, because I want the Minister to have time to reply. If bishops do not want to be part of politics, that would be fine. My party has supported disestablishment for a long time, and we think that it would be better for...

I fear that there might be something in what the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) just said. I wish to start my contribution by citing the preamble to the Parliament Act 1911, which states:""whereas it is intended to substitute for the House of Lords as it at present...

I fear that there might be something in what the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) just said. I wish to start my contribution by citing the preamble to the Parliament Act 1911, which states:""whereas it is intended to substitute for the House of Lords as it at present...

Thank you for that encouragement, Sir Alan. I will not go into any detail in my response to the Minister, except to say that he is right on his first point. On his second point, the Conservative party's attitude is not the only obstacle to reform. Under the present Government,...

Thank you for that encouragement, Sir Alan. I will not go into any detail in my response to the Minister, except to say that he is right on his first point. On his second point, the Conservative party's attitude is not the only obstacle to reform. Under the present Government,...

I was not implying that what was said to the House should not be binding and honoured. I was simply making the point about privity of contract. It was a deal between two other parties.

I was not implying that what was said to the House should not be binding and honoured. I was simply making the point about privity of contract. It was a deal between two other parties.

I am glad that the Secretary of State is open to further suggestions—the obvious one is to move to use the affirmative system, as opposed to the negative procedure, in this House. That would at least ensure that a vote took place in this House, even if a debate did...

I am glad that the Secretary of State is open to further suggestions—the obvious one is to move to use the affirmative system, as opposed to the negative procedure, in this House. That would at least ensure that a vote took place in this House, even if a debate did...

Will the Minister give way?

Will the Minister give way?

There is a new meaning of "more or less" in there somewhere, because the provisions on the Attorney-General, for example, are not in the Bill and the document on the prerogative powers basically says, "It's all fine now." However, I want to return to the points that the right hon....

There is a new meaning of "more or less" in there somewhere, because the provisions on the Attorney-General, for example, are not in the Bill and the document on the prerogative powers basically says, "It's all fine now." However, I want to return to the points that the right hon....