My Lords, I had better declare an interest, as did the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, in that I am an associate member of the Lords and Commons Cigar and Pipe Smokers’ Club. I am an associate member because I do not smoke, and I therefore cannot be a full member....

My Lords, I had better declare an interest, as did the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, in that I am an associate member of the Lords and Commons Cigar and Pipe Smokers’ Club. I am an associate member because I do not smoke, and I therefore cannot be a full member....

I understand that the Government refuse to meet the tobacco manufacturers. Is that the case and if it is are the Government not missing a trick? If they met the tobacco manufacturers they would be able to put all these points of view to them across the table.

I understand that the Government refuse to meet the tobacco manufacturers. Is that the case and if it is are the Government not missing a trick? If they met the tobacco manufacturers they would be able to put all these points of view to them across the table.

The noble Earl, Lord Howe, has just said that nicotine is very addictive. Is he aware that a cigarette that delivers nicotine to the body without smoke has been developed? Do the Government plan to ban non-smoking cigarettes?

The noble Earl, Lord Howe, has just said that nicotine is very addictive. Is he aware that a cigarette that delivers nicotine to the body without smoke has been developed? Do the Government plan to ban non-smoking cigarettes?

There is absolutely no difference at all. The brewers and the distillers wish to promote their product. They want people to start drinking as soon as possible because they make big profits out of people drinking. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, waxed eloquent about the dangers of tobacco. I remind...

There is absolutely no difference at all. The brewers and the distillers wish to promote their product. They want people to start drinking as soon as possible because they make big profits out of people drinking. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, waxed eloquent about the dangers of tobacco. I remind...

I thought I had better just say a few words. When I ran a grocery shop, I actually had a tobacco licence. I am not at all sure that it did any good but, nevertheless, it was a licence, which could be removed. But of course these are different times;...

I thought I had better just say a few words. When I ran a grocery shop, I actually had a tobacco licence. I am not at all sure that it did any good but, nevertheless, it was a licence, which could be removed. But of course these are different times;...

I am not going to argue with the noble Lord. I have the figures here but I do not want to take up too much of the Committee’s time.

I am not going to argue with the noble Lord. I have the figures here but I do not want to take up too much of the Committee’s time.

I shall have to think about that. The noble Baroness may be interested to know that I prepared a Bill, which had its First Reading, to ban alcohol advertising, so I am well ahead of her. However, I have come to the conclusion that when we ban people from promoting...

I shall have to think about that. The noble Baroness may be interested to know that I prepared a Bill, which had its First Reading, to ban alcohol advertising, so I am well ahead of her. However, I have come to the conclusion that when we ban people from promoting...

Perhaps I have got—

Perhaps I have got—

It is all right.

It is all right.

The Committee will not get away without hearing me on this subject. I apologise, first, to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, as I did not hear the whole of her speech. The reason is that there was a huge delay on the L to Z side of the Voting Lobby,...

The Committee will not get away without hearing me on this subject. I apologise, first, to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, as I did not hear the whole of her speech. The reason is that there was a huge delay on the L to Z side of the Voting Lobby,...

They were good Questions.

They were good Questions.

I am not pulling anyone’s leg; I am simply ensuring that the point of view of the tobacco industry and the retailers is put. It is being put because we are putting it. It is not being accepted but at least we have the right to do that. I believe—I...

I am not pulling anyone’s leg; I am simply ensuring that the point of view of the tobacco industry and the retailers is put. It is being put because we are putting it. It is not being accepted but at least we have the right to do that. I believe—I...

The noble Lord talks about the illegal selling of tobacco, but I assure him that most of the tobacco sold illegally is not sold in tobacconists’ shops. It is sold in all sorts of other places, and it will be very difficult to find them, because it is illegal anyway...

The noble Lord talks about the illegal selling of tobacco, but I assure him that most of the tobacco sold illegally is not sold in tobacconists’ shops. It is sold in all sorts of other places, and it will be very difficult to find them, because it is illegal anyway...

The main arguments against the new clause have already been made by the noble Lords, Lord Borrie and Lord Naseby, and the noble Baroness, Lady Golding, but there are aspects other than legal ones about it that should be put to the Committee. We are supposed to be a free...

The main arguments against the new clause have already been made by the noble Lords, Lord Borrie and Lord Naseby, and the noble Baroness, Lady Golding, but there are aspects other than legal ones about it that should be put to the Committee. We are supposed to be a free...

I—

I—

I do not think I referred to the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth. I find it absurd, frankly, that a person who believes that you should cover up a display for tobacco should be happy to have alcohol displayed in attractive bottles with attractive labels; it simply does not make sense....

I do not think I referred to the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth. I find it absurd, frankly, that a person who believes that you should cover up a display for tobacco should be happy to have alcohol displayed in attractive bottles with attractive labels; it simply does not make sense....

It would be most difficult for me to put anything delicately. I think that it has been frightened and lily-livered and that it has not stood up to government edicts hard enough. It has not, in fact, put its point of view forward as it should have done or protected...

It would be most difficult for me to put anything delicately. I think that it has been frightened and lily-livered and that it has not stood up to government edicts hard enough. It has not, in fact, put its point of view forward as it should have done or protected...

I am glad to get that "Hear, hear" from the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, because he moved an amendment to the Health Bill in 2004 to ban smoking.

I am glad to get that "Hear, hear" from the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, because he moved an amendment to the Health Bill in 2004 to ban smoking.

The noble Lord has not got the point that I am trying to make, which is that the tobacco industry has every right as a legal organisation to promote within the law. That is what it is doing. Gradually, its ability to promote at all, even to show its wares...

The noble Lord has not got the point that I am trying to make, which is that the tobacco industry has every right as a legal organisation to promote within the law. That is what it is doing. Gradually, its ability to promote at all, even to show its wares...

I thank the noble Lord very much. I am glad to have been corrected on that point, but perhaps we should have a Private Member’s Bill to ban tobacco and see exactly what the Government’s attitude is to that. As I was saying, there are all sorts of promotions. The...

I thank the noble Lord very much. I am glad to have been corrected on that point, but perhaps we should have a Private Member’s Bill to ban tobacco and see exactly what the Government’s attitude is to that. As I was saying, there are all sorts of promotions. The...