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Session X
2017-19

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Laid by
Secretary Michael Gove
Department
Cabinet Office
Type
Command papers
Date
8 October 2019
Reference
CP 179
House
House of Lords; House of Commons

To ask the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, when officials in his Department last met with representatives of the devolved Administrations on the development of the UK Shared Prosperity Fund.

Asked by
Tom Brake (Liberal Democrat)
Answering body
Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Type
Written questions
Status
Answered
Date
7 October 2019
Reference
293416
House
House of Commons

My Lords, the whole House owes the noble Lord, Lord McFall, and his colleagues a vote of thanks for this report, because it moves us into a new era. In particular, I strongly support the move to a more comprehensive system of thematic policy committees. I will, however, suggest a...

Member
Lord Whitty (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1787-1791
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I think I should start by declaring an interest, inasmuch as I submitted both written and oral evidence to the committee as this review was taking place. I very much welcome the report and pay tribute to the excellent work of the Liaison Committee, led by the noble...

Member
Baroness Tyler of Enfield (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1789-1792
House
House of Lords

My Lords, may I begin by expressing my warm congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord McFall, not only for the admirable report which he and his committee have produced but also for the assiduous way in which he has gone round various

groups within the House to explain and discuss...

Member
Lord Cormack (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1793-6
House
House of Lords

Madam Chair, my Lords, it is a sweet courtesy in this House to thank the mover of a Motion. I want to go beyond that in thanking the noble Lord, Lord McFall, and his colleagues for the way in which they have gone about this report. We have all been...

Member
Lord Lipsey (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1796-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, enjoying as I do the privilege of being a member of the Liaison Committee, I would like to say how encouraging it has been to me—and I am sure to other members who may be listening—to hear not only that the report so ably moved by the noble...

Member
Lord Lang of Monkton (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1798-1801
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am speaking in the gap not by choice. I understand that there has been a procedural change. Whereas previously these debates were not listed, on this occasion they are. That is why I did not apply to speak in the debate. So I will keep my remarks...

Member
Lord Campbell-Savours (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 c1801
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I, too, regret speaking in the gap. I feel that this is one of the most important reports that we have had in front of us for a long time, so I thank the noble Lord, Lord McFall, very much.

This goes to the very kernel of what the...

Member
Lord Winston (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1801-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I thank every Member for the generous welcome the report has had. Rather than refer to individual Members, I will sum up the themes very briefly. We are dealing with an entirely new global environment and the committee was very aware of that throughout. The pace of societal...

Member
Lord McFall of Alcluith (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1802-4
House
House of Lords

My Lords, that was a typically thought-provoking intervention from the noble Baroness, and it is a great pleasure to follow her. I will go away and think about elected chairs afterwards. I shall make three brief points.

First, I add my congratulations to that of others on the work of the...

Member
Earl of Kinnoull (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1792-3
House
House of Lords

Lords motion to agree the sixth report from the Liaison Committee on Review of Investigative and Scrutiny Committees: Towards a new thematic committee structure (HL 398). Agreed to on question.

Lead member
Lord McFall of Alcluith
Department
Liaison Committee (HL); Senior Deputy Speaker (HL)
Type
Debates on select committee reports
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1782-1804
House
House of Lords

My Lords, this is an excellent and very comprehensive review and the noble Lord, Lord McFall, who we have just listened to, has been doing an absolutely excellent job in building up all the work behind it and in his continuing efforts to modernise and make much more effective our...

Member
Lord Howell of Guildford (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1786-8
House
House of Lords

This report is the outcome of the most comprehensive review of our committee structure that has ever been undertaken. After the most thorough inquiry, we have proposed the start of a significant change in the positioning of our committees to begin to put in place a thematic approach which will...

Member
Lord McFall of Alcluith (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
3 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1783-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, wishes to take note of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. However, as a country we have not done so yet and, according to the polls of the last 18 months, the majority view is that we should not do so. It is...

Member
Earl of Clancarty (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1718-1720
House
House of Lords

There are only four on your Benches.

Member
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1745
House
House of Lords

The noble Lord says that it is an important measure, but he seems to be critical of what the House of Commons was discussing. I think he ought to be very careful where he goes with this.

Member
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1745
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, who spoke with her customary zeal and energy. Before I make my brief remarks, I want to note how busy the EU Committee structure is. The family of committees is meeting and the great machinery that is scrutiny...

Member
Earl of Kinnoull (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1695-7
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the Motion before us today asks the House to once again consider the UK’s withdrawal from the EU—which

will take place on 31 October, with or without a deal. Of course, this House and its committees have been considering this topic with great scrutiny and interest ever since...

Member
Lord Callanan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1678-9
House
House of Lords

Will the noble Lord confirm, in the light of the Prime Minister’s speech earlier today and the proposals that have just been published, that effectively the Government are saying, “We won’t impose border controls of a customs check character at or near the border, but since that border is the...

Member
Lord Hain (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1679
House
House of Lords

The noble Lord makes his point in his normal forthright manner. If he has a little patience, I will come to the details of our proposals in a little while.

The backstop risks weakening the delicate balance embodied in the Belfast agreement between both major traditions in Northern Ireland, grounded in...

Member
Lord Callanan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1679-1681
House
House of Lords

My Lords, this is the first full opportunity that this House has had to debate Brexit since the Supreme Court told the Prime Minister unanimously that his Prorogation plan was,

“unlawful, null and of no effect”,

because it had the effect, in their view, of frustrating or preventing the constitutional role of...

Member
Lord Goldsmith (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1681-5
House
House of Lords

My Lords, these Benches also welcome the debate. A benefit of the purported Prorogation being nullified is that we are able to hold the Government to account on this crucial issue, at such a crucial time—just 29 days before the date, set back in April, for the further extension of...

Member
Lord Wallace of Tankerness (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1684-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, since we last debated Brexit, much has changed and yet, in many ways, nothing has changed. In some respects, we have gone backwards. We are looking for a new departure arrangement having renounced Theresa May’s agreement, which many of us, however reluctantly, were finally willing to support—including the...

Member
Lord Butler of Brockwell (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1688-9
House
House of Lords

I have huge respect for the noble Lord and I value his advice. He is arguing that the process of Prorogation did not constitute proceedings in Parliament. Does he think the same is true of giving Royal Assent to Acts of Parliament?

Member
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1689
House
House of Lords

That is a legal issue on which I do not want to reply immediately. I think that is a proceeding in Parliament, but this was an act of the Executive, which happened to take place in Parliament.

The result of the Supreme Court’s judgment is that this House is sitting today...

Member
Lord Butler of Brockwell (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1689-1690
House
House of Lords

My Lords, as the Government are in mid-negotiation with the European Commission, with Belfast and Dublin, and no doubt with other political forces in the other place, it is a little difficult to debate this issue this afternoon with full confidence—particularly as we have had about 10 minutes to absorb...

Member
Lord Howell of Guildford (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1690-1
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I fear that we are on the verge of a very great constitutional crisis—probably the greatest since the Conservative Party leadership flirted with defying the law in the last days of the Asquith Government before the First World War on the question of Irish home rule. It was...

Member
Lord Liddle (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1691-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I too planned to talk about democracy, but I thought I would start by referring to a brief encounter I had with a policeman at the bottom of my staircase this morning. I arrived and said, “Good morning”, and he said, “Brexit today, ma’am”. I paused, and momentarily...

Member
Baroness Smith of Newnham (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1693-4
House
House of Lords

The noble Baroness is making an interesting speech about democracy, but would she explain one mystery that I really do not understand? How is it that the Liberal party was the first party to propose an in/out referendum on this issue? Indeed, the present leader of the Liberal party repeatedly...

Member
Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1694
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am delighted to take that intervention, and particularly delighted that I am taking it not from the Liberal Democrat Front Bench. Four years ago, when I was speaking from the Front Bench on the referendum Bill, I was intervened upon by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, who,...

Member
Baroness Smith of Newnham (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1694-5
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is always a privilege to follow a fellow Scot, although I will deal with a rather different matter.

We are dealing with the proposals in Article 50 for withdrawal from the European Union. It is important to note that, once a country such as ours has given such...

Member
Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1697-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I congratulate the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, whom it is always a pleasure to follow, and I shall take up some of his points. It is also a pleasure to come shortly after the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. I congratulate him on the record for not...

Member
Lord Whitty (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1698-9
House
House of Lords

My Lords, in preparation for this debate, I both watched and listened to the Prime Minister’s speech. I have come to the conclusion that it was not time well spent.

I would like to concentrate on the consequences of Brexit, and in particular the impact on the rule of law. If...

Member
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1699-1700
House
House of Lords

Does the noble Lord acknowledge that both the Master of the Rolls and the Lord Chief Justice disagreed entirely with the view of the Supreme Court?

Member
Lord Framlingham (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1700
House
House of Lords

I acknowledge that, but the fact of the matter is that, in our system, the Supreme Court is, as its name suggests, supreme. That decision having been taken, it is in my view wholly unacceptable to have the kind of treatment that was made covertly and, in some cases, openly...

Member
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1700
House
House of Lords

Of the 11 members of the Supreme Court, nine were appointed under a Conservative Prime Minister. Might that not have been used as an argument, if they had found for the Government, indicating corruption?

Member
Lord Heseltine (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1700
House
House of Lords

There are plenty of illustrations of how those who have had a political affiliation, when elevated to the Bench, are able to put that beyond them.

The Prime Minister did not dare to publish his proposals before his party conference; he did not dare to tell his conference what the proposals...

Member
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1700-1
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we cannot be dismissive of 45 years’ shared partnership. There is much to reflect on and respect. We need the EU 27 by our side. It has been a long haul and our country deserves a long bout of optimism. We are apparently in the Brexit home straight....

Member
Viscount Waverley (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1701-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, with whom I share an interest in central Asia. Like him, I have always found, when in Kazakhstan and neighbouring countries, that they have great sympathy with our decision to leave the European Union, having themselves left...

Member
Lord Lilley (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1702-5
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will simply say of the speech from the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, that his likening of the European Union to the Soviet Union will be hugely resented by all those countries of central and eastern Europe that were colonies of the Soviet Union but are free and...

Member
Lord Adonis (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1705-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the three years since the 2016 referendum have stress-tested every aspect of our parliamentary democracy. At times we seem to have been living out Yeats’s words in his poem “The Second Coming”:

“The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity”.

I was in the room at...

Member
Lord McNally (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1706-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is a little hard to take note of something—the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union—that may or may not happen. It is harder still to predict how it will turn out, a task that I happily leave to the large number of your Lordships whose political antennae...

Member
Lord Anderson of Ipswich (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1707-1710
House
House of Lords

My Lords, let us remind ourselves that the case for leaving the European Union is to reclaim the legislative sovereignty that we lent to the European Communities in 1972—and that is a prize of great value. The delegation of so much policy and legislative responsibility to the democratically defective institutions...

Member
Lord Howarth of Newport (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1710-2
House
House of Lords

My Lords, there is one matter on which I am able to agree with the Prime Minister: that the Government should get on with Brexit. As much as I regret the result of the referendum, I think it has to be honoured, as indeed do the pledges in the major...

Member
Lord Tugendhat (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1712-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we have repeatedly heard this week the Conservative conference slogan: “Get Brexit Done”, followed by, “then we can get on with our domestic priorities”. That is an entirely false prospectus. Deal or no deal, if we leave the EU, our leaving on 31 October or on any other...

Member
Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1713-4
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we are mired, the road to our present misfortune littered with miscalculation and error. A referendum called to resolve a party division has torn that party apart. Remain was the

anticipated answer, but after a clear-sighted, if misleading, campaign on the one hand and a somewhat clumsy and...

Member
Lord Birt (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1714-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords, in the House of Commons one week ago, the Prime Minister delivered a Statement demeaning in its tone and inflammatory in its language. Deliberately provocative, it was clearly an exercise in distraction, designed specifically to divert attention from the Supreme Court’s ruling 24 hours earlier that the suspension...

Member
Lord Livermore (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1716-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the Prime Minister said this morning in his Manchester speech that no deal,

“is an outcome for which we are ready”.

The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, repeated that in his introduction to this debate, and the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, has been trying to give some substance to that optimistic...

Member
Lord Monks (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1719-1721
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I had not realised that I was the next speaker—

Member
Lord Taverne (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1721
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the Minister was kind enough to praise your Lordships’ House for its stamina. With your Lordships’ permission, I should like to return the compliment and praise him for the calm and reasonable way in which he has handled our debates.

It has all been a big misunderstanding. You hear...

Member
Lord Saatchi (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1721-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, what a delightful speech. There was a lot of wisdom in it.

Let me cast caution to the winds and start by making three predictions. First, Boris will not get his deal. This now seems an almost uncontroversial forecast, judging by all the comments from Brussels.

Secondly, any challenge to...

Member
Lord Taverne (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1723-4
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I very much thank the noble Lord, Lord Taverne, for his remarks. I agree with every single comment he made. We thank him.

I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Saatchi. I think he is the only person I have ever seen getting up late in a debate—I have...

Member
Lord Dykes (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1724-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords, however much all of us are suffering from Brexit fatigue, we should welcome the fact that we are able to hold this debate today. The Prime Minister would like to have announced the submission of a novel “first and final” offer to the EU solely to the party...

Member
Viscount Chandos (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1726-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, there was a very interesting quotation in the Times this morning. On the leader page, there is always a tiny column headed, “The last word”, which today was a quotation from Aldous Huxley:

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored”.

That is something that the Prime Minister...

Member
Lord Cormack (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1728-9
House
House of Lords

My Lords, this is my first appearance on matters European since the Article 50 notice was triggered. Your Lordships may well say that it has all been said many times, but not by me. That is true up to a point, but my contribution has to be put into context.

The...

Member
Lord Shutt of Greetland (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1729-1730
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we are all well aware that, for the last three years, the country and Parliament have wrestled with the problem of Brexit. I therefore pay tribute to the current Government for the way in which the Prime Minister, the Ministers in charge of Brexit details and, in particular,...

Member
Lord Naseby (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1730-1
House
House of Lords

My Lords, three days after the referendum I wrote an article in the Mail on Sunday saying, “The fightback starts here”. I have no hesitation at all in reiterating that position. I believed that, in the light of circumstance and the evolution of truth, we needed a referendum or a...

Member
Lord Heseltine (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1731-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I want to begin by commenting on two of the speeches made earlier on by the noble Lords, Lord Lilley and Lord Howarth. They were both very original speeches; those Members of the House always make original speeches. Both were the subject of considerable reflection. Nevertheless, I detected...

Member
Lord Davies of Stamford (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1733-4
House
House of Lords

I am most grateful to the noble Lord and very much appreciate his kind personal words. If he would be good enough to look at Hansard and see what I said, he will not find that I mentioned either the Bank of England or the Treasury. What I do believe,...

Member
Lord Howarth of Newport (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1734
House
House of Lords

I must apologise to the noble Lord for adding words that he did not pronounce. I got the distinct impression that what he was talking about by way of remedial action was monetary or fiscal spending. Fiscal spending would have had the consequences that I have just outlined. I apologise...

Member
Lord Davies of Stamford (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1734
House
House of Lords

I very much agree with the noble Lord about the damage that recessions cause. Does he have any reflections on the fiscal policy of the Government, which has now become quite explosive and puts the country at very great risk, of exactly the nature he has been describing?

Member
Lord Howarth of Newport (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1734
House
House of Lords

I am so glad that I am once again in thorough agreement with my noble and long-standing friend. Of course, I am very worried

about that; I mentioned it in our debate last week, so I will not go into that subject now, but I could not agree more on...

Member
Lord Davies of Stamford (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1734-5
House
House of Lords

I think that is the cue for me to stand up. As an ex-Chief of Defence and a relative newcomer to the House, I do not make my contribution with great enthusiasm. In fact, my motivation is brought about primarily by friends in North Yorkshire with whom I spend my...

Member
Lord Houghton of Richmond (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1736-7
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is a pleasure to join in at this stage in the debate and recognise the contribution that the House of Lords is making to showing that you can debate the issues of Brexit without the sort of bad temper and extraordinarily bad conduct that has existed in...

Member
Lord King of Bridgwater (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1737-8
House
House of Lords

It is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord King. We are here to take note of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, which of course has not happened. I agree with my noble friend Lord Tugendhat that the divisive rhetoric that blames the fact we have not left...

Member
Baroness Altmann (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1738-1740
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I followed many of the speeches in this debate with interest, and I am delighted to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, and to say a few words. Whichever side of the divide you are on, the country is going through enormous pain. The country is suffering. Public...

Member
Lord Dubs (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1740-2
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I have a very tenuous connection to justify taking your time at this late hour of a long debate. On 6 September I participated in a debate in which I tried to run a small amendment to encourage a greater concentration on the issues of sovereignty in whatever...

Member
Lord James of Blackheath (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1742-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, yesterday in this Chamber, as reported in Hansard, in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, the noble Lord, Lord Duncan of Springbank, said:

“It is not the intention of this Government to have Northern Ireland treated any differently from any other part of this, our United Kingdom”.—[Official Report,...

Member
Lord Empey (Ulster Unionist Party)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1743-5
House
House of Lords

My Lords, so after three and a quarter years, here we are again discussing Brexit. Actually, there are one or two new things to be discussed, such as this proposal that we have just heard and that the noble Lord, Lord Empey, has been talking about, but basically, there is...

Member
Lord Robathan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1745
House
House of Lords

There are only three Liberal Democrats here to listen to me. These people have avoided listening to me, but they went on for years about how they were campaigning for “a real referendum” on Europe, under Nick Clegg. Paddy Ashdown boasted that he called for a referendum on Europe in...

Member
Lord Robathan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1745
House
House of Lords

As I was saying, it is a very important measure but, as the noble Baroness knows, the Second Reading is unlikely to proceed to law because we are likely to have a general election. I am not saying that it is not important, but there are not many people down...

Member
Lord Robathan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1746-7
House
House of Lords

I hear the Liberal Democrats laughing. I hope that they are going to pursue their policy even further, because that will lead them to the same result they had in 2015.

The increasing interference of courts is taking us to a continental system. Nobody asked for it; nobody has voted for...

Member
Lord Robathan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1747
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I would like to get back to basics because next week I have a birthday: a birthday that places me firmly in the generation that looked to the idea of a European Union as a means of maintaining peace in Europe, the rule of law, free liberal democracy,...

Member
Lord Haskel (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1747-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the Prime Minister is right: we need to get Brexit done. The longer the delay, the more divided we will become—if that is even possible. Last week, bloodletting in the other place plumbed new depths of acrimony and abuse. It was shocking, but hardly surprising. After three years...

Member
Baroness Meyer (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1748-9
House
House of Lords

No.

Member
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1749
House
House of Lords

Exactly. Brexit delayed is Brexit denied. Yet, with the latest deadline looming, Members of this House and the other place are scheming, yet again, to frustrate the wish of the majority of the British people and to undermine the Prime Minister’s determination to deliver Brexit—and, may I say, with a...

Member
Baroness Meyer (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1749
House
House of Lords

Would the noble Baroness agree that it is in fact like trying to play the finals while threatening to walk off if you do not win the first round?

Member
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1749
House
House of Lords

I could not agree with that because, if the Prime Minister is to be able to negotiate, he needs to know that his Parliament and this country are behind him. It is the only way to negotiate—if you play poker and you show your trump card in advance, how can...

Member
Baroness Meyer (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1749-1750
House
House of Lords

My Lords, for once we have a debate that is timely, following as it does so quickly in the wake of the Prime Minister’s conference speech and indeed the publication of the documents delivered this afternoon to Brussels. Having said that, one really must ask whether the “take it or...

Member
Lord Wigley (Plaid Cymru)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1750-1
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, although I regret that what I have to say will not be to his liking.

I thank my noble friend Lord Callanan for introducing this debate. I am not a lawyer, but I am surprised that the...

Member
Viscount Trenchard (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1751-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, because he has tellingly spelled out to me why I feel so strongly on the issues before us. Of course, they are not simply about Brexit; they are about a committed bunch of people determined to change this...

Member
Lord Judd (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1753-4
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am glad to have listened to the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and I thought for one brief moment that I was going to actually agree with him on something, because he said he had growing reservations about our unwritten constitution—but then that took him off to saying...

Member
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1754-5
House
House of Lords

What is the noble Lord implying? He should not just put a question mark up. The clue as to why there is a difference is in the name “Supreme Court”. Why does the noble Lord think all 11 came to the same conclusion? By raising it, he is implying that...

Member
Lord McNally (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1755
House
House of Lords

Because I do not know what went on in the previous discussions of the Supreme Court; I was not there. All I am saying is that it is very strange that the conclusion the court came to was completely unanimous. This is very odd.

Member
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1755
House
House of Lords

Perhaps I could help the noble Lord. The Supreme Court judges said they were all of the opinion that parliamentary sovereignty was what was at stake. As they made very clear, they were not taking a decision for or against Brexit. They were talking simply about the role of Parliament,...

Member
Lord Goldsmith (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1755
House
House of Lords

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, is putting words in my mouth. I did not say anything improper. I just said that, considering the judiciary is completely divided on this issue, it was remarkable that all 11 members of the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion. The issue at...

Member
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1755
House
House of Lords

Will the noble Lord give way?

Member
Lord Wallace of Tankerness (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1755
House
House of Lords

No. I have given way to so many people, and we are always being told that we cannot go beyond six minutes.

As everybody will know, the judgment of the Supreme Court alluded to the fact that a number of judgments had been made that had political connotations. This is a...

Member
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1755-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords—

Member
Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1756
House
House of Lords

No, I am not going to give way any more. I have given way endless times, and it does not seem to be taken into account when I am gone after.

That is what will happen. They will be asked about all these things, and we will move over to an...

Member
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1756-7
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I declare, as always, my European interests as detailed in the register. This is the first opportunity I have had to speak in this Chamber since I resigned the Conservative Whip on 4 September, and I feel I ought to explain why I did so.

When the Prime Minister...

Member
Duke of Wellington (Non-affiliated)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1757-8
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we are now in the endgame of Brexit: less than four weeks to go, a choice between crashing out, staying in or some sort of ingenious or fantastical deal over the Irish border.

The Lords, we all accept, is a revising Chamber. We look at the detail of what...

Member
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1758-1761
House
House of Lords

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Whitty confessed that he is going to weep on 31 October if we leave then. For myself, I have booked to see “Dracula”, the ballet, that night, which somehow seemed rather appropriate.

I am afraid I have to respond to the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton—and...

Member
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1761-4
House
House of Lords

My Lords, once again this has been an extremely wide-ranging debate and it has given us the opportunity to take account of the significant recent developments in the EU exit process. That is very much in keeping with this House’s overall record of providing considered and insightful contributions throughout the...

Member
Lord Callanan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 cc1764-5
House
House of Lords

Can the noble Lord explain what would happen if I, as a consumer, buy something and then travel to the other part of Ireland? Who will check the goods that I bought in one place and then took across the border?

Member
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1766
House
House of Lords

We will discuss many of these proposals in detail tomorrow.

Member
Lord Callanan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1766
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I thank the Minister for giving way. I have now had the opportunity to look at the document entitled “Explanatory Note”. On page 6, in paragraph b, it says that:

“Physical checks—which would continue to be required only on a very small proportion of movements based on risk-assessment—could then...

Member
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1766
House
House of Lords

Of course it will require the co-operation of the Irish Government. We want to discuss with them and the EU how we can address the unique situation of the circumstances in Ireland to bring about our exit from the European Union without imposing border infrastructure. That is what we want...

Member
Lord Callanan (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1766
House
House of Lords

Since the Leader of the House is here, we repeat strongly the request to have sufficient time for this tomorrow, rather than having a Statement with 20 minutes for questions. This is clearly important, and we will need much more time.

Member
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
2 October 2019
Reference
799 c1766
House
House of Lords